Fighting Ganryujima-style is in some ways a more realistic form of fighting than MMA

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Fighting Ganryujima-style is in some ways a more realistic form of fighting than MMA

Post by nodogoshi on Sun Jan 28, 2018 5:29 am

It is not just Ganryujima that uses a raised platform, also Sanda, and Wushu. Also, Ganryujima occurs on a sumo doyo, it's a traditional platform.

There are a couple things that I think make it a more realistic fighting form than MMA.

Perhaps foremost is the attire, which is basically a karate dougi.

Now, the reason this is more realistic is because in the real world, people generally where clothes. Think about it, even a pair of shorts is at least similar to a Mongolian wrestling uniform.

Why do you suppose the Greeks use to wrestle naked? I thought about it, and I decided that the reason is because they did not have nylon wrestling singlets.

Nylon wrestling singlets basically emulate being naked. I suppose that in lieu of armor, it could be wise to fight naked in a hand-to-hand combat situation, because it doesn't provide clothing to grasp.

However, in fact, people generally do wear clothes, and so 'jacket wrestling' is generally more realistic, when you think about it. Take a judogi, and then consider that in Japan, many people where three-piece suits. You could execute judo techniques against a guy in a suit, as if he were wearing a judougi.

The second way that the raised platform is more realistic, is because it is a raised platform, that is, it has obstacles in the way of the edges. This can somewhat emulate curbs or walls, etc., that one encounters in a street fighting situation.

Now, submissions on the ground are not allowed. This is the nature of the rules. But even here, if you take the platform as an obstacle, and you were to envision a full on no-holds-barred situation, it's easy to see how a guy could squirm out of the ring, and escape that way, with a lot of frequency--as the space between the platform and the ground will provide an opening to get away from an opponent's clutch.

It is also no coincidence that a style like Katsunori Kikuno's traditional karate is so effective in ganryujima. His foundational physical culture is designed for such combat.

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In your synoposive about cage?

Post by CODELMJVG on Wed Jan 31, 2018 9:26 pm

Question 1
Do you think its way to advantages and inconsistent to have something like a cage to naturally raise from wall as a elemental tool and feet to push and grab with toes and to have it used against you in the edge of the cage especially for the guy on top.

Question 2
Is it not realistic to stall someone from cage and not inflict damage or advantage from a dangerous position and not do anything with it broken criteria?

Question 3
5min rounds for imitation form street fight defeat the purpose?

either way fighting for 30min like ken vs royce like in it 2 fight realistic or royce for saku in pride fight.
only one went the distant but the other was due to repeated leg kick to the legs and ankle and inevitably ended the fight due to throwing in the towel.

Question 4
You can't tell me the rules don't influence how they fight
especially wrestlers in modern mma using it for stalling and way more capable than that. Like the stipe fight was horrendous to watch and lack of tool to finish the fight was appalling those are the rules and the fighter fault.

PS
I'm fine with a wrestlers finishing the fight and using it for dangerous position to inflict damage.
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Re: Fighting Ganryujima-style is in some ways a more realistic form of fighting than MMA

Post by nodogoshi on Wed Jan 31, 2018 10:37 pm

You make fine points.

But I was more saying there are factors which differentiate the two, and these do expose the realism limitations of either.

I suppose Gyanrujima does simulate a situation where two guys Duke it out mano-a-mano with a third agent there (referee/crowd/arbitraging bystander) participating (I.e., making them stand at a stalemate to Duke it out some more).

The cage is a barrier, but it's uniform. I think the raised platform is more freewheeling and demands much more control.

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Re: Fighting Ganryujima-style is in some ways a more realistic form of fighting than MMA

Post by CODELMJVG on Thu Feb 01, 2018 12:36 am

I think the cage promotes more grappling and way more control environment than a ring out or restart and cut breaks thats where the sport comes in IMO. Someone just shooting take-downs with no punishment of over committing. If its through Gyanrujima setting would be punish dramatically. No wall or stall no holding way to risky for ring out. That's where the sumo element comes in to play. Its definitively represents a sport sense than unified rules like ufc pretending to imitate a real fight that been striped in its bare bones don't make sense. I don't know what there trying to be seems like a identity crisis and the sport is still at its stages of mma what it should be.

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Re: Fighting Ganryujima-style is in some ways a more realistic form of fighting than MMA

Post by nodogoshi on Thu Feb 01, 2018 3:29 am

I disagree that it's an identity crisis, it isn't MMA. It's moreover a traditional format, and exists in China as well.

My most principal point was that both the clothing and the ringouts present something different from being locked in the cage. I meant control in the sense of personal control and poise, to avoid the ring edge, not controlling an opponent.

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Re: Fighting Ganryujima-style is in some ways a more realistic form of fighting than MMA

Post by Hamilcar on Sat Feb 03, 2018 7:28 pm

I'm not sure if Ganryujima is more realistic toward street fighting or not, but I certainly prefer their rule set over any other.

Street fighting is always going to have that sudden violence factor that just can't be replicated. Where the guy who gets the first hit in, often wins. The other factor is that they are both looking to escape the situation as fast as possible. They don't stand and trade unless that is what they want to do.

Yes, the jacket replicates having clothed fighters. But remember, the gi has also been mercilessly critized by martial arts practioners as being unrealistic. In that you have a super tough piece of clothing with big long, grabbale lapels.

No cage is certainly great. The cage doesn't serve any real utility in replicating a street fight, other than maybe running into a wall.

I like the limits on ground fighting. The Gracie lie of 90% of fights ending on the ground was a self-promoting lie.http://www.wimsblog.com/2013/01/the-myth-of-90-percent-of-fights-go-to-the-ground/ Nobody fought like that before the UFC. Wrestling was in the realm of sports before then and for good reason. So, Ganryujima definitely wins some realism points here by keeping their fighters off the ground.

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Re: Fighting Ganryujima-style is in some ways a more realistic form of fighting than MMA

Post by nodogoshi on Sun Feb 04, 2018 7:16 pm

I here you about the dougi.

In the t-shirt era, this is more pronounced, although jiu jitsu guys do practice rolling up the shirt to use it as a handle/rope.

Like I said, a three-piece suit is pretty similar to a dougi. In some places, people where these a lot (like Japan).

I actually knew a bar owner in Tokyo, who got in a fight and had his jaw broken, and got knocked out. I don't know what it was about. It was probably just some bullshit. You never know, maybe he owed the guy money or some shit.

He said that the guy threw him on the sidewalk and punched him in the jaw, and he was knocked out and didn't remember it. It sounds like the guy might've used some karate and/or judo.

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Re: Fighting Ganryujima-style is in some ways a more realistic form of fighting than MMA

Post by nodogoshi on Sun Feb 11, 2018 3:58 am

On a separate note.

'Jiujitsu' is just a misspelling of the Japanese word jujutsu, which is an ancient Japanese indigenous martial arts current. Jigoro kano adapted some ancient techniques of jujutsu to form a new sport, which he named judo for its likeness to its roots in jujutsu.

In Japanese martial arts, the term for fighting on the ground is 'newaza'. The Gracies were taught judo by one of Jigoro Kano's disciple, so their family sparring style is just a bit of judo, which was taught to them.

I think that Brazillian so-called jiujitsu should just be called 'Brazilian newaza' from now on.

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Re: Fighting Ganryujima-style is in some ways a more realistic form of fighting than MMA

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