Bellator 200: Cro Cop vs Nelson 2 - May 25 (OFFICIAL DISCUSSION)

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Re: Bellator 200: Cro Cop vs Nelson 2 - May 25 (OFFICIAL DISCUSSION)

Post by westcott123 on Thu May 24, 2018 7:29 pm

Exactly ^^ hell khabib nurgamedov is primarily a grappler and he is a current undefeated world champion demian Maia is mainly a jiu-jitsu guy yet had 2 title fights. People say it is still evolving yet they can't answer what exactly that is.

1 the martial arts. Mma uses combat styles that have been around for centuries

2 mma is evolution. No mma is a hybrid style of different combat sports before people say they are the same no they are not I will use animals example a liger is not an evolved cat it is a hybrid of a lion and a tiger. Evolution example would be say horses which at one point were not bigger than a medium size dog to the size they are now.

As for who will win im leaning towards gegard but I don't think it will be an easy fight for him. I can't wait to hear the comments from the ufc fans

1 if gegard wins. This proves that gegard was never that good anyway and that the competition in the ufc was too tough for him and he left to fight "easier" competition.

2 if gegard loses. This proves that gegard was never that good anyway and that the competition in the ufc was too tough for him and he has always been overrated and he can't even beat "easier" competition.

You can also guarantee since this is rafael Carvalho last fight on his contract you can bet that if he goes to the ufc wins the belt "I'm a rafael Carvalho fan all of a sudden".

That's the difference between us and them we're a fan of the fighters they're just fans of whom ever is the latest ufc hype job is.
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Re: Bellator 200: Cro Cop vs Nelson 2 - May 25 (OFFICIAL DISCUSSION)

Post by CDF47 on Thu May 24, 2018 10:53 pm

westcott123 wrote:People will say the sport is still young. Yes the term mma is young in reality it has been around for years. Pankration and vale Tudo are considered to be the ancestors of mma people were cross training even before Shooto was thought of. Mma is a hybrid style of different combat styles that have been around for centuries people will say that's evolution no it isn't really you're just melding different into to one and making a hybrid style to make evolution a person needs to make a style no one has ever scene.

Yup, that is exactly right or someone will really have to come in that has mastered capoeria for instance and can use it effectively with a mix of sprawl and brawl or solid BJJ.

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Re: Bellator 200: Cro Cop vs Nelson 2 - May 25 (OFFICIAL DISCUSSION)

Post by CDF47 on Thu May 24, 2018 10:57 pm

westcott123 wrote:Exactly ^^  hell khabib nurgamedov is primarily a grappler and he is a current undefeated world champion demian Maia is mainly a jiu-jitsu guy yet had 2 title fights. People say it is still evolving yet they can't answer what exactly that is.

1 the martial arts. Mma uses combat styles that have been around for centuries

2 mma is evolution. No mma is  a hybrid style of different combat sports before people say they are the same no they are not I will use animals example a liger is not an evolved cat it is a hybrid of a lion and a tiger. Evolution example would be say horses which at one point were not bigger than a medium size dog to the size they are now.

As for who will win im leaning towards gegard but I don't think it will be an easy fight for him. I can't wait to hear the comments from the ufc fans

1 if gegard wins. This proves that gegard was never that good anyway and that the competition in the ufc was too tough for him and he left to fight "easier" competition.

2 if gegard loses. This proves that gegard was never that good anyway and that the competition in the ufc  was too tough for him and he has always been overrated and he can't even beat "easier" competition.

You can also guarantee since this is rafael Carvalho last fight on his contract you can bet that if he goes to the ufc wins the belt "I'm a rafael Carvalho fan all of a sudden".

That's the difference between us and them we're a fan of the fighters they're just fans of whom ever is the latest ufc hype job is.

Yeah, wash, rinse, and repeat for them. They follow the company line to a t.

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Re: Bellator 200: Cro Cop vs Nelson 2 - May 25 (OFFICIAL DISCUSSION)

Post by westcott123 on Fri May 25, 2018 1:06 am

http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/mma-evolution-myth.3558295/

Now check out the first response ha ha what a rant this person goes into

Of course mma of 2018 is different to mma of 1998 this person whole argument was better weight cutting better eating and better technology. So I guess that is the evolution you can cut weight better. You can see what a person means when you ask them these questions they go on a tirade let's be real mma evolution began and ended the moment people began cross training. If fedor was born in 1986 instead of 1976 and he used the same training methods today as he did back then I bet he will still be the man to be honest I would rather train that way than at some fancy high tech gym.

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Re: Bellator 200: Cro Cop vs Nelson 2 - May 25 (OFFICIAL DISCUSSION)

Post by westcott123 on Fri May 25, 2018 1:27 am

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Re: Bellator 200: Cro Cop vs Nelson 2 - May 25 (OFFICIAL DISCUSSION)

Post by Rocksoldier84 on Fri May 25, 2018 6:14 am

westcott123 wrote:http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/mma-evolution-myth.3558295/

Now check out the first response ha ha what a rant this person goes into

Of course mma of 2018 is different to mma of 1998 this person whole argument was better weight cutting better eating and better technology. So I guess that is the evolution you can cut weight better. You can see what a person means when you ask them these questions they go on a tirade let's be real mma evolution began and ended the moment people began cross training. If fedor was born in 1986 instead of 1976 and he used the same training methods today as he did back then I bet he will still be the man to be honest I would rather train that way than at some fancy high tech gym.


Some of these are a joke. "Coleman was 40 while Fedor was in his athletic prime". Yeah and Coleman started fighting at 31 so he was a late bloomer and considered a top ten in 2004 by some with his only loss in four years being to Big Nog. I suppose then Chuck Liddell, Brock Lesnar, and Lyoto Machida's wins over Randy Couture mean nothing since he was 40 and over. I suppose Coleman's win over Dan Severn meant nothing since Severn was 38. I guess Rich Franklin's win over Ken Shamrock meant nothing as Shamrock was 41. I guess Weidman's win over Silva meant nothing as Silva was 38. What about Miocic's wins over Arlovski, Werdum, Hunt, and Overeem who were all in their late 30s/early 40s with tons of mileage while Miocic is in his prime?

"Randleman was a LHW and had a career MMA record of 17-16". Randleman was a former UFC Heavyweight Champion competing in the PRIDE Heavyweight Grand Prix coming off a win over Cro Cop. Randleman was also 15-7 at the time and you could argue he should've been at least 16-6 given the controversial loss to Bas. Also, Fedor is not a big heavyweight and they were both around the same size. It wasn't like Lesnar and Couture where Couture gave away 40-60 pounds at fight night. Not to mention, that you can't look at a record and assume someone is good or not. It's who they beat and lost to. Yes, Randleman is 17-16 but look at his record. He beat Bobish, Smith, Williams Rizzo, Babalu, Ninja, Cro Cop, and Kawamura while his losses were to Barreto, Erikson, Rutten (which was extremely controversial), Couture, Liddell, Rampage, Sakuraba, Nakamura, Shogun, and Roger Gracie. Also, a lot of MMA legends records aren't good from win/loss. Couture is 19-11, Ortiz is 19-12-1, Penn is 16-12-2, Hunt is 13-12-1, 1NC, and Mir is 18-12. Meanwhile, Miguel Torres has a 43-6 record but he's hardly beat anyone of note especially in his first 30 fights. Shane Carwin is 12-2 but his only notable wins are Gonzaga and Mir. If win/loss is so important then Travis Fulton is the greatest with 300 wins. Granted, Coleman and Randleman didn't evolve but they were still great wins for the time.
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Re: Bellator 200: Cro Cop vs Nelson 2 - May 25 (OFFICIAL DISCUSSION)

Post by westcott123 on Fri May 25, 2018 7:27 am

Can not agree more mark was 39 the first time he fought fedor but he was a young 39. If that's their attitude you're too old well they will not get far in life. For some reason they still can't see the difference between milage and age fedor is a perfect example "he was only 33 that is his prime years" oh yes ignore the 33 mma fights he had ignore the Sambo matches while doing mma ignore he has been doing this since he was a kid. The Dan is 10 years older than fedor I didn't realize 1970 is 10 years before 1976 they need to go back to school and learn maths.
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Re: Bellator 200: Cro Cop vs Nelson 2 - May 25 (OFFICIAL DISCUSSION)

Post by westcott123 on Fri May 25, 2018 7:35 am

With mvp if he does win they should put him against the top 5 Fitch, koreshkov, lima, Larkin etc if he beats any of those guys it would stop the uh he fights cans motto then again everyone outside the ufc is a can or can crusher according to them.

With the main event I'm leaning towards mousasi I will not be surprised if Carvalho wins.
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Re: Bellator 200: Cro Cop vs Nelson 2 - May 25 (OFFICIAL DISCUSSION)

Post by Rocksoldier84 on Fri May 25, 2018 8:27 am

westcott123 wrote:Can not agree more mark was 39 the first time he fought fedor but he was a young 39. If that's their attitude you're too old well they will not get far in life. For some reason they still can't see the difference between milage and age fedor is  a perfect example "he was only 33 that is his prime years" oh yes ignore the 33 mma fights he had ignore the Sambo matches while doing mma ignore he has been doing this since he was a kid. The Dan is 10 years older than fedor I didn't realize 1970 is 10 years before 1976 they need to go back to school and learn maths.

A lot of stuff needs to be considered. Turning pro at 20 doesn't mean you'll have a 20 year career. People debut at different times and peak at different times. Among the reasons guys like Hendo and Couture fought while finding success into their 40s is because they started later as Hendo was 28 and Couture was 33. Dan Severn was 35 when he started fighting.

On the other hand, look at guys like GSP, Big Nog, and Gomi. Rogan would say how GSP wasn't in his prime yet because he was only 30 but that's not how it works. GSP largely was done by 32 but by that point, he fought 11 years, had 27 fights, and injuries like a torn ACL. Big Nog was also 32 but he fought 9 years, had 37 fights, and had many wars. Gomi was 30 but had around 30 fights, had been competing for 10 years, and was usually fighting 3-5 times a year.

Fedor was the same as he was 33 against Werdum but had already fought 33 fights, 10 years, mostly fought 3-5 times a year between 2000-2005, and had a history of hand issues. Not to mention that he was still doing sambo between MMA.
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Re: Bellator 200: Cro Cop vs Nelson 2 - May 25 (OFFICIAL DISCUSSION)

Post by Rocksoldier84 on Fri May 25, 2018 8:32 am

westcott123 wrote:With mvp if he does win they should put him against the top 5 Fitch, koreshkov, lima, Larkin etc if he beats any of those guys it would stop the uh he fights cans motto then again everyone outside the ufc  is a can or can crusher according to them.

With the main event I'm leaning towards mousasi I will not be surprised if  Carvalho wins.

Page/Larkin would be good as would Fitch especially to test Page's ground skills. I think Koreshkov should be next for MacDonald.

Agree on the main event.
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Re: Bellator 200: Cro Cop vs Nelson 2 - May 25 (OFFICIAL DISCUSSION)

Post by westcott123 on Fri May 25, 2018 9:53 am

Agree koreshkov should be next in line.
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Re: Bellator 200: Cro Cop vs Nelson 2 - May 25 (OFFICIAL DISCUSSION)

Post by westcott123 on Fri May 25, 2018 10:03 pm

http://www.espn.com/mma/story/_/id/23607384/gegard-mousasi-wins-middleweight-title-via-first-round-tko-bellator-200

Congrats to gegard mvp vs Paul daley should be next if not how bout mvp vs a former champion.
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Re: Bellator 200: Cro Cop vs Nelson 2 - May 25 (OFFICIAL DISCUSSION)

Post by CDF47 on Sat May 26, 2018 2:45 am

Great event. Arm break in prelim match was nasty.
Tokov got another win and should be moving up the ranks.
Was cool to see MVP get a nice stoppage against a tough opponent like Rickels.
Head kick KO by Phil Davis was unexpected. Could be a trilogy coming with Bader.
Mousasi dominated Carvalho on the ground to get the stoppage win. Impressive new champ. He wants Rory next, champ vs. champ.

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Re: Bellator 200: Cro Cop vs Nelson 2 - May 25 (OFFICIAL DISCUSSION)

Post by Rocksoldier84 on Sat May 26, 2018 3:06 am

CDF47 wrote:Great event.  Arm break in prelim match was nasty.
Tokov got another win and should be moving up the ranks.
Was cool to see MVP get a nice stoppage against a tough opponent like Rickels.
Head kick KO by Phil Davis was unexpected.  Could be a trilogy coming with Bader.
Mousasi dominated Carvalho on the ground to get the stoppage win.  Impressive new champ.  He wants Rory next, champ vs. champ.

The event looked good but I'm tired of champion vs. champion matches. We're getting them in UFC and ONE. Enough. Champions should be defending their belts and it's not even special anymore.
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Re: Bellator 200: Cro Cop vs Nelson 2 - May 25 (OFFICIAL DISCUSSION)

Post by westcott123 on Sat May 26, 2018 3:15 am

Yeah the whole champions vs champions thing is starting to get stale . Champions vs champions should only happen when both fighters basically cleared  out their respective divisions.
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Re: Bellator 200: Cro Cop vs Nelson 2 - May 25 (OFFICIAL DISCUSSION)

Post by CDF47 on Sat May 26, 2018 3:45 am

Rocksoldier84 wrote:
CDF47 wrote:Great event.  Arm break in prelim match was nasty.
Tokov got another win and should be moving up the ranks.
Was cool to see MVP get a nice stoppage against a tough opponent like Rickels.
Head kick KO by Phil Davis was unexpected.  Could be a trilogy coming with Bader.
Mousasi dominated Carvalho on the ground to get the stoppage win.  Impressive new champ.  He wants Rory next, champ vs. champ.

The event looked good but I'm tired of champion vs. champion matches. We're getting them in UFC and ONE. Enough. Champions should be defending their belts and it's not even special anymore.

I hear you but really seems like the fight Mousasi wants next. Champ vs. Champ is good when they are cross-promotional events.

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Re: Bellator 200: Cro Cop vs Nelson 2 - May 25 (OFFICIAL DISCUSSION)

Post by CDF47 on Sat May 26, 2018 3:48 am

I'd like to see Tokov get a title shot soon.  Maybe have him fight against Salter or Carvahlo first and if he wins, give him a shot at Mousasi.

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Re: Bellator 200: Cro Cop vs Nelson 2 - May 25 (OFFICIAL DISCUSSION)

Post by westcott123 on Sat May 26, 2018 4:23 am

Yes a champion VS champion cross promotion would be good or as I said when 2 fighters basically cleared out their respective divisions.
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Re: Bellator 200: Cro Cop vs Nelson 2 - May 25 (OFFICIAL DISCUSSION)

Post by Rocksoldier84 on Sat May 26, 2018 6:13 am

CDF47 wrote:I'd like to see Tokov get a title shot soon.  Maybe have him fight against Salter or Carvahlo first and if he wins, give him a shot at Mousasi.

I would too. That could be fun and I agree that he should face Salter or Carvalho as he needs a "big" win before getting a title shot especially since his recent fight was a preliminary one.
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Re: Bellator 200: Cro Cop vs Nelson 2 - May 25 (OFFICIAL DISCUSSION)

Post by CDF47 on Sat May 26, 2018 6:55 am

Rocksoldier84 wrote:
CDF47 wrote:I'd like to see Tokov get a title shot soon.  Maybe have him fight against Salter or Carvahlo first and if he wins, give him a shot at Mousasi.

I would too. That could be fun and I agree that he should face Salter or Carvalho as he needs a "big" win before getting a title shot especially since his recent fight was a preliminary one.

I agree. If he could beat either of those guys, it would definitely put him in contender-ship.

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Re: Bellator 200: Cro Cop vs Nelson 2 - May 25 (OFFICIAL DISCUSSION)

Post by westcott123 on Sat May 26, 2018 9:20 am

Yes I agree if he beats either one of two tokov should get the title shot. Sounds like gegard Is having 4 more fights then he will retire.. Ha ha I bet I'm right on the whole if gegard wins or losses thing aren't I? If I had dollar every time
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Re: Bellator 200: Cro Cop vs Nelson 2 - May 25 (OFFICIAL DISCUSSION)

Post by Rocksoldier84 on Sat May 26, 2018 4:51 pm

westcott123 wrote:Yes I agree if he beats either one of two tokov should get the title shot. Sounds like gegard Is having 4 more fights then he will retire.. Ha ha I bet I'm right on the whole if gegard wins or losses thing aren't I? If I had dollar every time

Oh, you know the zombies are having a field day because Rory MacDonald, Ryan Bader, and now Gegard Mousasi are champions while Matt Mitrione will be heavyweight champion.
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Re: Bellator 200: Cro Cop vs Nelson 2 - May 25 (OFFICIAL DISCUSSION)

Post by God of Thunder on Sat May 26, 2018 5:25 pm

Rocksoldier84 wrote:
westcott123 wrote:Yes I agree if he beats either one of two tokov should get the title shot. Sounds like gegard Is having 4 more fights then he will retire.. Ha ha I bet I'm right on the whole if gegard wins or losses thing aren't I? If I had dollar every time

Oh, you know the zombies are having a field day because Rory MacDonald, Ryan Bader, and now Gegard Mousasi are champions while Matt Mitrione will be heavyweight champion.
And the zombies forget that many top fighters in the UFC over the years lost several fights in other promotions.
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Re: Bellator 200: Cro Cop vs Nelson 2 - May 25 (OFFICIAL DISCUSSION)

Post by westcott123 on Sat May 26, 2018 5:38 pm

Rocksoldier84 wrote:
westcott123 wrote:Yes I agree if he beats either one of two tokov should get the title shot. Sounds like gegard Is having 4 more fights then he will retire.. Ha ha I bet I'm right on the whole if gegard wins or losses thing aren't I? If I had dollar every time

Oh, you know the zombies are having a field day because Rory MacDonald, Ryan Bader, and now Gegard Mousasi are champions while Matt Mitrione will be heavyweight champion.

OH yes but as usual they "forget" the fighters from other organizations who became ufc champions. Their excuse for that is "they improved because they are the in the ufc"
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Re: Bellator 200: Cro Cop vs Nelson 2 - May 25 (OFFICIAL DISCUSSION)

Post by westcott123 on Sat May 26, 2018 5:45 pm

God of Thunder wrote:
Rocksoldier84 wrote:
westcott123 wrote:Yes I agree if he beats either one of two tokov should get the title shot. Sounds like gegard Is having 4 more fights then he will retire.. Ha ha I bet I'm right on the whole if gegard wins or losses thing aren't I? If I had dollar every time

Oh, you know the zombies are having a field day because Rory MacDonald, Ryan Bader, and now Gegard Mousasi are champions while Matt Mitrione will be heavyweight champion.
And the zombies forget that many top fighters in the UFC over the years lost several fights in other promotions.

That's true several top ufc fighters have lost in other promotions. I wonder how many of them were gegard "fans" while he was in the ufc amazing how they back flip.
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Re: Bellator 200: Cro Cop vs Nelson 2 - May 25 (OFFICIAL DISCUSSION)

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