UFC on Fuel TV 2 - Gustafsson vs. Silva

I can't imagine how disappointing it must be when you want an event to suck so bad and for it to turn out so good....

total finish wrote:I can't imagine how disappointing it must be when you want an event to suck so bad and for it to turn out so good....

I don´t think anyone here wanted the event to suck. The fights were good but I would rather see people supporting scandinavian and european promotions. We don´t need the UFC in Europe and soon the fans will discover our own promotions.

^ Next you'll tell me you don't need Walmart in Europe.

total finish wrote:I can't imagine how disappointing it must be when you want an event to suck so bad and for it to turn out so good....

you cant get dissapointed if you never cared in the first place.

rezin wrote:^ Next you'll tell me you don't need Walmart in Europe.

http://www.peopleofwalmart.com/
for those seeking some LOLZ

total finish wrote:Did it sound like the people in attendance felt ripped off? It was one of the best MMA events (note MMA, not just UFC) this year.
Of course you pay for the brand, welcome to capitalism bro.

The problem they're adressing is the fact that they had expensive tickets, for a card without big fights, only good but not great veterans and newcomers. If you want to have success and make people pay you more, at least you have to deliver. The fights were good, but this same card on another company people would just not care and would probably be stupid enough to say "lol card with cans".

The next Bellator will have a nice card with some fights that have everything to be very exciting, now ask the "fans" if they would pay the same price for their show. Even if they have 2 high level and well known champs of the sport and 4 important semi finals, with at least 2 of them being very interesting, and people don't give a shit. It's easy to see that, just look at the difference of ratings both companies get.

So, it's not bias or "these guys are crazy haters bla bla bla" like you want to makes us look. The member that started the discussion just pointed a very simple fact, that even you admited being true. Which is sad because this sport should be about serious competition, and not like WWE where only names matter.

rezin wrote:^ Next you'll tell me you don't need Walmart in Europe.

We spit on Walmart

total finish wrote:Did it sound like the people in attendance felt ripped off? It was one of the best MMA events (note MMA, not just UFC) this year.
Of course you pay for the brand, welcome to capitalism bro.

In MMA & WWE yes but not in Boxing.

In Boxing people pay for the fighters, not many people give a shit about whether the event is being promoted by Golden Boy or Top Rank.

If you put the same fighters and fights on say Bellator, you think the people will pay?

No because most people who attend MMA events or buy PPV's think UFC = MMA, they even say they want to "train UFC" or "cage fighting".

That's great for the UFC and its owners but do you think its good for the sport as a whole?

As I said in the other thread, it is marketed like a fad to Tapout wearing idiots and people tend to leave fads behind as they grow up.

What do you think will happen if the UFC gets in trouble?

Look what happened to MMA in Japan with Pride being bought out by Zuffa.

You think if Top Rank goes under, it will have much long term impact on the future of Boxing?

Not at all, many Boxing promotions have come and gone over the years but the sport continues. Not many people today know or remember Tex Rickard one of the famous early Boxing promoters, but a lot more people remember the fighters he promoted and their fights like Jack Dempsey. In MMA its almost the exact opposite, if you ask the casual meat head fans at UFC events about any of the early MMA pioneer fighters like Sakuraba, Shamrock etc, you will get blank stares. You think that's good for the sport?

Do you see a "Top Rank HW champ" or "Golden Boy HW champ" in Boxing?

What about a "Top Rank HOF"?

But you do see a "UFC HW champ" or a "Bellator HW champ" etc and a "UFC HOF". Just like there is a "WWE Champ".

In Boxing there are two major Boxing HOF's but in MMA instead there is a "UFC HOF" in which inclusion is totally arbitrary based on the whims of Dana, if he has a beef with an early MMA pioneer fighter he won't be getting into the HOF, that's basically history distortion of the sport akin to WWE.

MMA will move toward legitimacy when it puts fighters ahead of promoters, WAMMA was an attempt in that direction. You should NOT have a promoter crowning his own champions, it is absurd for a real sport but may suit pro wrestling.

Even the so called MMA media is basically paid off, idiots like Kevin Iole basically serve as Zuffa mouthpieces.

When you have promoter/media/belts all rolled into one, corruption is bound to happen. I hope I am wrong but if I am right then MMA fans will find out the hard way about what happens when you let your sport be run like a travelling circus show instead of as a legitimate sport.

Fisticuffa wrote:

total finish wrote:Did it sound like the people in attendance felt ripped off? It was one of the best MMA events (note MMA, not just UFC) this year.
Of course you pay for the brand, welcome to capitalism bro.

In MMA & WWE yes but not in Boxing.

In Boxing people pay for the fighters, not many people give a shit about whether the event is being promoted by Golden Boy or Top Rank.

If you put the same fighters and fights on say Bellator, you think the people will pay?

No because most people who attend MMA events or buy PPV's think UFC = MMA, they even say they want to "train UFC" or "cage fighting".

That's great for the UFC and its owners but do you think its good for the sport as a whole?

As I said in the other thread, it is marketed like a fad to Tapout wearing idiots and people tend to leave fads behind as they grow up.

What do you think will happen if the UFC gets in trouble?

Look what happened to MMA in Japan with Pride being bought out by Zuffa.

You think if Top Rank goes under, it will have much long term impact on the future of Boxing?

Not at all, many Boxing promotions have come and gone over the years but the sport continues. Not many people today know or remember Tex Rickard one of the famous early Boxing promoters, but a lot more people remember the fighters he promoted and their fights like Jack Dempsey. In MMA its almost the exact opposite, if you ask the casual meat head fans at UFC events about any of the early MMA pioneer fighters like Sakuraba, Shamrock etc, you will get blank stares. You think that's good for the sport?

Do you see a "Top Rank HW champ" or "Golden Boy HW champ" in Boxing?

What about a "Top Rank HOF"?

But you do see a "UFC HW champ" or a "Bellator HW champ" etc and a "UFC HOF". Just like there is a "WWE Champ".

In Boxing there are two major Boxing HOF's but in MMA instead there is a "UFC HOF" in which inclusion is totally arbitrary based on the whims of Dana, if he has a beef with an early MMA pioneer fighter he won't be getting into the HOF, that's basically history distortion of the sport akin to WWE.

MMA will move toward legitimacy when it puts fighters ahead of promoters, WAMMA was an attempt in that direction. You should NOT have a promoter crowning his own champions, it is absurd for a real sport but may suit pro wrestling.

Even the so called MMA media is basically paid off, idiots like Kevin Iole basically serve as Zuffa mouthpieces.

When you have promoter/media/belts all rolled into one, corruption is bound to happen. I hope I am wrong but if I am right then MMA fans will find out the hard way about what happens when you let your sport be run like a travelling circus show instead of as a legitimate sport.

Another epic post. I totally agree.

Fisticuffa wrote:

total finish wrote:Did it sound like the people in attendance felt ripped off? It was one of the best MMA events (note MMA, not just UFC) this year.
Of course you pay for the brand, welcome to capitalism bro.

In MMA & WWE yes but not in Boxing.

In Boxing people pay for the fighters, not many people give a shit about whether the event is being promoted by Golden Boy or Top Rank.

If you put the same fighters and fights on say Bellator, you think the people will pay?

No because most people who attend MMA events or buy PPV's think UFC = MMA, they even say they want to "train UFC" or "cage fighting".

That's great for the UFC and its owners but do you think its good for the sport as a whole?

As I said in the other thread, it is marketed like a fad to Tapout wearing idiots and people tend to leave fads behind as they grow up.

What do you think will happen if the UFC gets in trouble?

Look what happened to MMA in Japan with Pride being bought out by Zuffa.

You think if Top Rank goes under, it will have much long term impact on the future of Boxing?

Not at all, many Boxing promotions have come and gone over the years but the sport continues. Not many people today know or remember Tex Rickard one of the famous early Boxing promoters, but a lot more people remember the fighters he promoted and their fights like Jack Dempsey. In MMA its almost the exact opposite, if you ask the casual meat head fans at UFC events about any of the early MMA pioneer fighters like Sakuraba, Shamrock etc, you will get blank stares. You think that's good for the sport?

Do you see a "Top Rank HW champ" or "Golden Boy HW champ" in Boxing?

What about a "Top Rank HOF"?

But you do see a "UFC HW champ" or a "Bellator HW champ" etc and a "UFC HOF". Just like there is a "WWE Champ".

In Boxing there are two major Boxing HOF's but in MMA instead there is a "UFC HOF" in which inclusion is totally arbitrary based on the whims of Dana, if he has a beef with an early MMA pioneer fighter he won't be getting into the HOF, that's basically history distortion of the sport akin to WWE.

MMA will move toward legitimacy when it puts fighters ahead of promoters, WAMMA was an attempt in that direction. You should NOT have a promoter crowning his own champions, it is absurd for a real sport but may suit pro wrestling.

Even the so called MMA media is basically paid off, idiots like Kevin Iole basically serve as Zuffa mouthpieces.

When you have promoter/media/belts all rolled into one, corruption is bound to happen. I hope I am wrong but if I am right then MMA fans will find out the hard way about what happens when you let your sport be run like a travelling circus show instead of as a legitimate sport.

quality post, go to the chat man!

There are many other issues including fighter pay. I remember that officially Carwin made 40k for a fight labelled the biggest fight in UFC history and which did well over a million PPV buys. Of course Dana spreads around BS about how all these guys are getting trillion dollar backroom "bonuses" to fool his gullible sheep like fans .

What Carwin made in 2010, Jim Corbett almost did in 1892. As for Corbett's earnings as the challenger in the first heavyweight championship fight since the sport became legalized in one single state;

"When the 10 seconds were at last at an end, Prof Mike Donovan, of the New York athletic club, and W.A Brady, Corbett's manager, sprang to the stage and flung their arms around the young man, who was now the champion pugilist of the world and the winner of $35,000 in purse and stake, as well as a reputation that will turn perhaps ten times that amount into his treasury."

- quote taken from a wired report found in the Reading Eagle and other sources, Sept 8th, 1892

Adjusted for inflation that is well over a million dollars today and remember this was when there was no radio, TV, PPV and all the other streams of revenue generation today.

Let's look at Jack Johnson.

"Johnson took away $60,000, plus his $10,000 advance, and an additional $50,000 for his share of the motion picture rights. Jeffries' share was $40,400, plus his $10,000 advance, with $50,000 for the film rights."

- Page 25 of Harry Mullan's 'History of Boxing'

This was in 1910 money as the first Black HW champ.

Boxers typically get paid 40-60% of the revenue an event generates. In the UFC its like 7-8% tops, even a scumbag like Don King gave a bigger share to his fighters.

By the way it might interest some people here to know the other similarities between King and Dana. He got into the game because he had this friend Lloyd Price I think was his name, a singer or something who knew Ali and they set up this fundrasier fight for a hospital and thats how he got into the game. So Lloyd Price was a singer in the music industry and they have this rule, never let the artist be bigger than the record company and that's how Don got his stupid electric hair. Because they created this Don King character to draw attention away from the boxers.

Do you see the similarities with the way Dana attention whores and tries to be bigger than the fighters?

Fisticuffa wrote:There are many other issues including fighter pay. I remember that officially Carwin made 40k for a fight labelled the biggest fight in UFC history and which did well over a million PPV buys. Of course Dana spreads around BS about how all these guys are getting trillion dollar backroom "bonuses" to fool his gullible sheep like fans .

What Carwin made in 2010, Jim Corbett almost did in 1892. As for Corbett's earnings as the challenger in the first heavyweight championship fight since the sport became legalized in one single state;

"When the 10 seconds were at last at an end, Prof Mike Donovan, of the New York athletic club, and W.A Brady, Corbett's manager, sprang to the stage and flung their arms around the young man, who was now the champion pugilist of the world and the winner of $35,000 in purse and stake, as well as a reputation that will turn perhaps ten times that amount into his treasury."

- quote taken from a wired report found in the Reading Eagle and other sources, Sept 8th, 1892

Adjusted for inflation that is well over a million dollars today and remember this was when there was no radio, TV, PPV and all the other streams of revenue generation today.

Let's look at Jack Johnson.

"Johnson took away $60,000, plus his $10,000 advance, and an additional $50,000 for his share of the motion picture rights. Jeffries' share was $40,400, plus his $10,000 advance, with $50,000 for the film rights."

- Page 25 of Harry Mullan's 'History of Boxing'

This was in 1910 money as the first Black HW champ.

Boxers typically get paid 40-60% of the revenue an event generates. In the UFC its like 7-8% tops, even a scumbag like Don King gave a bigger share to his fighters.

By the way it might interest some people here to know the other similarities between King and Dana. He got into the game because he had this friend Lloyd Price I think was his name, a singer or something who knew Ali and they set up this fundrasier fight for a hospital and thats how he got into the game. So Lloyd Price was a singer in the music industry and they have this rule, never let the artist be bigger than the record company and that's how Don got his stupid electric hair. Because they created this Don King character to draw attention away from the boxers.

Do you see the similarities with the way Dana attention whores and tries to be bigger than the fighters?

Damn Zuffa is ripping off the fighters. They should pay much, much more but since they destroyed most competition the fighters have no choice.

Great info you shared, man. I'm constantly saying that MMA today is not a serious sport yet, and you just proved it in every post. The fights are real of course (well at least most of the time) but the business part is a joke, and those IDIOTS out there wonder why we hate Zuffa and the current state of MMA.

Fisticuffa, is there any chance Kid Mccoy would come here? His posts are always very interesting.

I don't know because I never had personal contact with him and he has been banned from Sherdog 2 years back finally, so I don't even know how to get a hold of him now.

He trolled so hard before the Toney-Couture fight to get himself banned. I think he had enough of the shertards and did it deliberately.

There are a few good posters on Sherdog still, Sharkey and consortium 11 in the Boxing section come to mind. Sharkey does a good job exposing Dana White's many lies about Boxing, fighter pay, and other stuff including the supposed ratings they got in Brazil on TV.

For example:

Speaking of numbers, viewers and all that, I got a quick math question for you, bud. You are obviously a big UFC fan and seem to be somewhat complimentary towards Dana White in this thread. Hey, maybe your even one of those guys who parrots Uncle Dana's every word. I don't know.

But uh, here's my question, okay?

Immediately after the UFC in Brazil Uncle Dana came out and said that the card did a peak share of 20% which he equated to being in the neighborhood of 30 million viewers. Remember that? Every two bit site on the internet that covers MMA claimed those numbers as well. Obviously based on Dana's claims. Now, curiousity did get the best of me a few short minutes ago and did a quick look into some Brazilian television numbers. Found this here;

http://www.globotvinternational.com/newsDet.asp?newsId=163

"The last episode of the telenovela 'Passione' which went to air on January 14th, reached high audience ratings with 52 points and 77% of the share. Author Silvio de Abreu (‘Pure Beauty’and ‘Belíssima’) created a drama with lots of emotion, love and suspense for viewers, who needed to wait until the last scenes to see the big mystery revealed. Throughout the whole broadcast of the telenovela in Brazil, the average audience for ‘Passione’ was 31.5 million viewers."

See where I'm going with this? How does Uncle Dana's math work out to 30 million with a 20% share when the highest rated program in Brazil is getting 31.5 million with a 77% share? Now, I don't claim to be no math genius or anything. But I think Uncle Dana's numbers are just a tiny bit fucked up, don't you?

http://www.sherdog.net/forums/f53/everyones-comments-mayweather-ortiz-merged-threads-1818825/index22.html#post59049219

Boxers have always been paid very well, my friend. Even in the very earliest days of the sport;

"When the 10 seconds were at last at an end, Prof Mike Donovan, of the New York athletic club, and W.A Brady, Corbett's manager, sprang to the stage and flung their arms around the young man, who was now the champion pugilist of the world and the winner of $35,000 in purse and stake, as well as a reputation that will turn perhaps ten times that amount into his treasury."

- quote taken from a wired report found in the Reading Eage and other sources, Sept 8th, 1892

Corbett, as the challenger, earns $35,000 in 1892 money for participating in a fight that most determine to be the very beginning of boxing.

Smaller fighters such as 137 pound Jack McAuliffe and 118 pound George Dixon also earned quite well during that inaugural boxing event as support players, as they pocketed $15,000 and $17,500 in 1892 money respectively for their bouts.

The Owosso American - Google News Archive Search
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=ug8tAAAAIBAJ&sjid=3qsFAAAAIBAJ&pg=891,1074526&dq=purse+george-dixon&hl=en

This was obviously during a time when there was no radio, TV or PPV dollars coming into the sport. For comparision sake, it took baseball over 20 years before they had a player make an annual salary more than what Dixon got for his one night of work;

"Tris Speaker, for instance, upon his return from the world-tour with the Giants and White Sox was re-signed by his Boston manager at a salary said to be the highest ever given to a player. The sum reported is to be $18,000 a year."

- The Miami News, April 18th, 1914

The Miami News - Google News Archive Search
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=qisuAAAAIBAJ&sjid=_9QFAAAAIBAJ&pg=5594,6257388&dq=baseball+highest-paid-player&hl=en

By the time Speaker was getting that money Jack Johnson and James Jeffries were a few years removed from having made six figure paydays (in 1910 money) fighting each other.

http://www.sherdog.net/forums/f53/everyones-comments-mayweather-ortiz-merged-threads-1818825/index22.html#post59049219

Gustafsson did well against the juiced pig Silva. Just comes to show once again that ring rust played a major role in his loss. Gus should fight Rampage next and then move up to Machida & Shogun before getting a title shot me thinks.