Best case I ever seen re: Anderson being GOAT or P4P Goat - by Sleight Of Hand

This is about as solid argument as I have ever seen.

Sleight Of Hand wrote:
Originally Posted by Sleight Of Hand...


"- Travis Lutter: He was 9-3, and had 0 top ten wins.

- Nate Marquardt: Had one fight in 2007 to earn his shot against Silva by beating Dean Lister.

- Patrick Cote: With a record of 13-5. He was in a 5 fight win streak, although he didn't beat anybody in the top 10. He earned his shot by beating Almeida who had 2 fights in 4 years.

- Thales Leites: Got his shot by beating Marquardt by point deduction.

- Demian Maia: Earned his shot by getting KOed by Marquardt and then beating Jim Miller

- Vitor Belfort: Earned his shot without fighting at MW. Hasn't had a top 10 win in 7 years."



You see, i don't need to bring up Anderson's cans, because the top 10 guys he fought are already suspect. Plus while Fedor defeated the cans he fought... Anderson was dominated and beaten by them."

http://www.sherdog.net/forums/f61/fedor-dana-lied-ufc-tried-often-sign-him-recent-years-2094627/index13.html



This guy could win a debate with God, Buddha, Allah, Yaweh... ... ... Win it at least to those who don't choose to block those guys on Twitter.

I been saying this for years, but theres no getting it in there heads.

I agree.

Ive also been saying that these zombies have double standards.

They might also want to point out that Anderson NEVER fought a top level striker in his whole career and bummed out in kickboxing. Anderson is lucky in that America just doesnt seem to produce any top level kickboxers.

Not taking anything away from Anderson, but the truth is what it is. He's really a good fighter but his competition..... Well, not so much. I hope before retiring he moves up and take on the top guys.

*Re-edit to try and make another to make joke that might actually makes sense.




"This guy (Sleight Of Hand) could win a debate with God, Buddha, Allah, Yaweh... ... ...
As well as all those who choose to block them on Twitter, with the exception of" *









*References
^ Meltzer, Dave (8 April 2009). "Dana is Atheist". Yahoo News. Retrieved 31 December 2011. LOL

Wolfman wrote:Not taking anything away from Anderson, but the truth is what it is. He's really a good fighter but his competition..... Well, not so much. I hope before retiring he moves up and take on the top guys.

Yup, exactly. Anderson is good and he is the best MW of all time, but that isn't really saying much. I remember before the Sonnen fight happened everyone on sherdog was laughing at it and saying how Sonnen wouldn't last even 1 round. Of course after the fight Sonnen has become this incredible fighter all of a sudden even though he is like a MW Mark Coleman minus the dangerous GnP.

When Fedor/Werdum was announced all of the zombies were bashing Werdum and saying he wasn't even a challenge even though he has great jiu-jitsu and good striking but Anderson can fight guys like Maia who have dangerous jiu-jitsu and um, nothing else and that's okay. Anderson beat Henderson (who is okay at MW but not legendary like at LHW) and Rich Franklin x2 (just a top 15 at LHW) and Forrest (pretty good win at the time). So he has beat some names but not really that many, it was mostly guys like Cote, Leben and so on but he gets a free pass for beating nobodies.

Wolfman wrote:Not taking anything away from Anderson, but the truth is what it is. He's really a good fighter but his competition..... Well, not so much. I hope before retiring he moves up and take on the top guys.

That's really a good point. I think those here really try to be objective without the influence of what any promoter, announcer, reporter, analyst or commentator says. This does not happen much anywhere in MMA. For sure not in the Zuffa-centric markets of MMA.

Based on our own uninfluenced individual take, we all are pretty much on the same page that AS is #1 or #2 for the most technically skilled, physically gifted, strategically superior in MMA history. I think we collectively can agree on that without being influenced by what anyone says. For sure not ones that have any monetary interest in Anderson, or the organization he fights in, existing. That is independent thinking.

Strictly by documented fight records, level of opponent's opposition, the most accepted MMA rankings at the time, and trusted-experted-evaluated technical skill levels... Anderson has has not fought as good of opponents as the other guys always mentions in the mix for GOAT or P4P GOAT.

I don't like Anderson's lack of respect and honor he's shown for opponents. I sure don't like the 'disrespectful to the sport of MMA' actions in the ring either. Not to mention their slap in the face to the values of the Martial Arts that the sport is founded on.

In spite of all this I still can't take away from Anderson how great a fighter he is. That would be unfair. Most of the MMA world does not understand this concept.

p4p goat is a stupid list. anderson is easily the middleweight goat though which is that matters

Nothing special about that post... Many people have already said such things. Unfortunately the UFC has a lot of marketing and hype so they can write history as they choose... I live outside of the US, where the influence of the UFC is much less (only just beginning to gain some recognition, but still far from mainstream) so it's easier to see things without skewed perceptions...

The thing about Anderson Silva is that his competition really is NOT elite. AT ALL. Only a couple of opponents. Ironically the same people who think Anderson Silva is fighting legendary fighters call out Fedor for fighting Hong Man Choi and Zuluzinho (as if these are the only two fights on his record)...

Yeah well done Anderson, Travis Lutter is truly elite and dangerous! Even Okami, like really, come the fuck on, does anybody truly believe Okami is amongst the top fighters in the world skill wise?

Anderson Silva has good wins in Dan Henderson and Vitor Belfort. Everything else is unimpressive... And his win against Chael doesn't exactly reflect well on him, even in victory. Patrick Cote was doing fine, just a fucking freak accident so it shouldn't even count as a win!!!! Maia is basically equivelent to Werdum, who Fedor lost to, but nobody would pick Werdum in a rematch, even Dana White...

How is Anderson's wins any more reputable than Fedor? Fedor has over 30 fucking wins so these guys should stop focusing on Hong Man Choi, Lindland and Zuluzinho like that's his entire career.

WHy do you guys like to talk shit on Anderson? He is a very talented fighter.

Seems really bitter imo.

StillWill wrote:WHy do you guys like to talk shit on Anderson? He is a very talented fighter.

Seems really bitter imo.

Is it talking shit or discussing the different points of views of a fighter's legacy? I don't think anyone's arguing Anderson's talents, more so his competition and the idea of not consistently facing true top contenders (which is hard to expect out of champions and organizations, shit just happens and you can't always see the champ vs. the #1 contender).

Personally Fedor has entertained me more over the years and I'd rather go back and watch an old Fedor fight more than an old Anderson fight. Whether that impacts another persons opinion on who's P4P or The GOAT, I don't give a shit because I'm not keeping track. Like you said, what really matters more(discussion-wise) is who's the best of each division.

AudaxPowder wrote:

StillWill wrote:WHy do you guys like to talk shit on Anderson? He is a very talented fighter.

Seems really bitter imo.

Is it talking shit or discussing the different points of views of a fighter's legacy? I don't think anyone's arguing Anderson's talents, more so his competition and the idea of not consistently facing true top contenders (which is hard to expect out of champions and organizations, shit just happens and you can't always see the champ vs. the #1 contender).

Personally Fedor has entertained me more over the years and I'd rather go back and watch an old Fedor fight more than an old Anderson fight. Whether that impacts another persons opinion on who's P4P or The GOAT, I don't give a shit because I'm not keeping track. Like you said, what really matters more(discussion-wise) is who's the best of each division.

explain to me how this thread is valid discussion

https://global-mma.forumotion.com/t1779-ryo-chonan-is-the-p4p-goat

StillWill wrote:p4p goat is a stupid list. anderson is easily the middleweight goat though which is that matters

I agree. I have always thought P4P is stupid. 1. It's purely hypothetical and impossible to ever test so it means nothing. 2. All that really matters is who is the toughest, weight and strength and all of that is simply part of fighting. 3. I have no problem with weight classes really or saying a guy is the best at that weight class, it's just that is all he is, the best at that weight class until proven otherwise.

StillWill wrote:

AudaxPowder wrote:

StillWill wrote:WHy do you guys like to talk shit on Anderson? He is a very talented fighter.

Seems really bitter imo.

Is it talking shit or discussing the different points of views of a fighter's legacy? I don't think anyone's arguing Anderson's talents, more so his competition and the idea of not consistently facing true top contenders (which is hard to expect out of champions and organizations, shit just happens and you can't always see the champ vs. the #1 contender).

Personally Fedor has entertained me more over the years and I'd rather go back and watch an old Fedor fight more than an old Anderson fight. Whether that impacts another persons opinion on who's P4P or The GOAT, I don't give a shit because I'm not keeping track. Like you said, what really matters more(discussion-wise) is who's the best of each division.

explain to me how this thread is valid discussion

https://global-mma.forumotion.com/t1779-ryo-chonan-is-the-p4p-goat

We're not posting in that topic though, I'm not going to defend anyone in a topic(that's an obvious troll) I didn't post in. I'm just pointing out what I noticed in this thread. YOU NEED TO FOCUS WILLIAM

Please tell me who Anderson should fight??? He has literally cleaned out his division and made it look very easy.

Also nobody seems to mention his win over undefeated Mach Sakurai, who at the time was the number 1 p4p fighter in MMA.

Hater gon hate.

Dan Henderson
Vitor Belfort
Mach Sakurai
Carlos Newton
Lee Murray
Nate Marquardt
Rich Franklin
Chael SOnnen
Yushin Okami

not a bad list of scalps

Nobody's saying he's bad, and that thread is just to troll.

But, Anderson is a huge guy, there's really nobody at his weightclass anymore. He needs to move up and fight the best on LHW or HW, whatever. Jon Jones would make a great match with him. He said numerous times he wants to fight him, but he wants to go down and face GSP. Does not make any sense to me.

The biggest problem with him might be that newer fans consider him the best, even though he's not known for fighting big competition, with some exceptions. Well, in the end you can say he's the best or not, depending on your point of view, but the one presented on the thread has a good point.

AT THIS PRESENT JUNCTURE IN TIME: Anderson should fight Hector Lombard should he win his wacky rematch with Chael. If hypothetically organizational co-promotion was real then there's still Khalidov too. Then there are always some impressive fighters on the rise like a Chris Weidman, I wouldn't be surprised if Weidman could do what Chael could do to Anderson and then some given 1-2 more years (barring Anderson is still competing).

ANDERSON CLEANED OUT WHAT HIS DIVISION HAD TO OFFER HIM AT THE TIMES. That doesn't mean you have to act like there will never be a challenge for him ever again. I'm so confused on what you're actually trying to discuss Will, WHAT THE FUCK DO YOU WANT other than to randomly proclaim "Hater gon hate" which is directed at who exactly?

I want to see Anderson vs Gegard Mousasi at LHW.

^

Chill, buddies. It's just a discussion. Every side has a point, let's not turn this into a fight. Some of us agree with sleight of hand's argument, some don't. That's life, but i still think he's right.

Forget UFC, StillWill will always remember Anderson Silva as SHOOTO CHAMP

Wolfman wrote:^

Chill, buddies. It's just a discussion. Every side has a point, let's not turn this into a fight. Some of us agree with sleight of hand's argument, some don't. That's life, but i still think he's right.

AudaxPowder wrote:AT THIS PRESENT JUNCTURE IN TIME: Anderson should fight Hector Lombard should he win his wacky rematch with Chael. If hypothetically organizational co-promotion was real then there's still Khalidov too. Then there are always some impressive fighters on the rise like a Chris Weidman, I wouldn't be surprised if Weidman could do what Chael could do to Anderson and then some given 1-2 more years (barring Anderson is still competing).

So you are criticizing Anderson for not taking fights which arent even possible to make. Cool. BTW while they are obviously talented, neither Khalidov or Lombard have beaten top level opposition

For those saying Anderson is too big for 185 dont forget he used to fight at 168.

Nobody is fighting I just think a lot of this criticism is unwarranted and is obviously related to some Fedor thing.

It not Andersons fault Dana is a faggot

StillWill wrote:Nobody is fighting I just think a lot of this criticism is unwarranted and is obviously related to some Fedor thing.

Where is the criticism in my post exactly? You asked a question ("Please tell me who Anderson should fight???") and I answered it realistically. My answer to your question is criticism? Seriously dude you're making up arguments in your head that aren't happening.

StillWill wrote:It not Andersons fault Dana is a faggot

Lol I guarantee you that no one is arguing that here, in fact you could almost say I was eluding to that by pointing out how lame it is that I even have to say "hypothetical organizational co-promotion" (goes for other promoters and orgs too though).

^

Difference is, Khalidov and Lombard did not have any competition at their level available. Anderson always had, even in the upper classes. Yes Anderson fought at even smaller weightclass, but now he walks around at 220 and admits cutting some 30 lbs.