No Holds Barred: Donna Rose on Transsexual Athletes

On this edition of No Holds Barred, host Eddie Goldman speaks with transsexual athlete, author, and speaker Donna Rose (http://donnarose.com).

Donna Rose is also a wrestler. In her youth as a man, she wrestled in college. Now as a woman, and in her 50s, she is continuing to compete, finishing sixth at the 2010 U.S. Open Wrestling Championships at 72 kg/158.75 lbs. in senior women's freestyle wrestling.

We spoke with Donna Rose by phone Thursday as the controversy over female transsexual MMA fighter Fallon Fox continued. Fox, who last fought March 2 in Florida, is awaiting reviews of her fighter license applications from the athletic commissions in Florida and California. These commissions thus far have not adopted a policy regarding licensing of transsexual athletes, even though the International Olympic Committee did so almost a decade ago, and the Association of Boxing Commission's Medical Committee advised them to do so as recently as their annual meeting in July 2012.

"It's unfortunate that sports keeps falling back into outdated stereotypes of transsexual people," Donna Rose said in this interview. "All any of us wants to do is to be judged on our abilities."

Our discussion with Donna Rose touched on her own positive experiences in dealing with USA Wrestling as an openly transsexual woman, the many years of transition that a transsexual woman has to go through, why they do not have any unfair advantage over other female athletes, how the decision by the IOC Executive Board to drop wrestling from the Olympic program starting in 2020 "broke my heart", her plans to continue wrestling, and much more.

You can play or download No Holds Barred at http://nhbnews.podomatic.com/entry/2013-03-15T03_24_50-07_00 and http://archive.org/details/NoHoldsBarredDonnaRoseOnTranssexualAthletes. If one link does not work, please try another.

No Holds Barred is also available on mobile phones and iPads through Stitcher (http://landing.stitcher.com/?vurl=noholdsbarred).

Also, No Holds Barred is available through iTunes at http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewPodcast?id=150801513&s=143441.

The No Holds Barred theme song is called "The Heist", which is also available on iTunes by composer by Ian Snow(http://magicpumpkinstudios.com).

No Holds Barred is free to listen to and is sponsored by:

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Thanks, Eddie Goldman http://eddiegoldman.com

I'm catching up on NHBNews podcasts.

I am listening to this episode right now, and haven't finished it.

But, I must say that I am fully against transexual females competing with females. I'm against Donna Rose wrestling with women in the US Open, too. That she is in her 50s and still competitive, probably has something to do with the physiological differences in my mind.

Listening to her talk, she seems to be responding mostly based on emotions, and not discussing the matter on the basis of the factual issues.

But, it is nonetheless an interesting topic, which is why I'm listening.

nodogoshi wrote:But, I must say that I am fully against transexual females competing with females. I'm against Donna Rose wrestling with women in the US Open, too. That she is in her 50s and still competitive, probably has something to do with the physiological differences in my mind.

Agree 100%. It´s not fair to "real" women.

PRIDE FC wrote:

nodogoshi wrote:But, I must say that I am fully against transexual females competing with females. I'm against Donna Rose wrestling with women in the US Open, too. That she is in her 50s and still competitive, probably has something to do with the physiological differences in my mind.

Agree 100%. It´s not fair to "real" women.

This may sound bigoted to some people's pallet. But I don't mean it that way.

If transexual females want to compete in combat sports, they should compete against each other.

Anything else, I do not find acceptable.

I also know that there are various cases of genetic conditions in sport, and that kind of thing. That is a separate issue though. In my opinion, anyway.

One more thing. If we assume for the sake of argument that a transexual female may potentially have a physical advantage over a non-transexual female; it may be fine if we are talking about track and field, or softball. People are at a higher probability of being potentially seriously injured and even killed in combat sports though.

nodogoshi wrote:

PRIDE FC wrote:

nodogoshi wrote:But, I must say that I am fully against transexual females competing with females. I'm against Donna Rose wrestling with women in the US Open, too. That she is in her 50s and still competitive, probably has something to do with the physiological differences in my mind.

Agree 100%. It´s not fair to "real" women.

This may sound bigoted to some people's pallet. But I don't mean it that way.

If transexual females want to compete in combat sports, they should compete against each other.

Anything else, I do not find acceptable.

They should compete against men if they are born men. If they are born as women they should compete against women. It doesn´t matter what they feel like on the inside when it comes to sports.

Promoter Jorge de la Noval has a date for Championship Fighting Alliance 11 and plans to resume a women's featherweight tournament featuring Fallon Fox.

CFA 11 is set for May 24 at BankUnited Center in Coral Gables, Fla. Noval said a network TV deal is in the works.

Although Fox's Florida fight license currently is under investigation by the regulatory agency that oversees the state's athletic commission, the fighter's management has indicated she may still compete on the fight card.

"Her manager spoke to the commission and her license is active," Noval wrote to MMAjunkie.com (www.mmajunkie.com) via text message. "According to him, they said she was cleared to fight."

Sandi Copes Poreda, Director of Communications for Florida's Department of Business and Professional Regulation, confirmed that the fighter's license has not been suspended or frozen in lieu of the investigation, which began in the wake of "allegations pertaining to the information provided on [Fox's] application."

"Licensed professionals are afforded due process rights," wrote FDBPR rep Beth Frady in a subsequent email. "Disciplinary action cannot be taken until all administrative hearings and appellate reviews have been completed."

Frady, who stated the FDBPR has yet to receive a request from Noval for the May 24 event, added "there is no additional documentation that Ms. Fox will have to submit in order to fight in Florida."

Earlier this month, Fox made national headlines by coming out as the first known male-to-female transgendered fighter. The revelation came shortly after her first tournament bout at CFA 10, which ended in a 39-second knockout victory.

Fox's license paperwork for the March 2 bout revealed that she applied for the license as a female and claimed to be licensed by the California State Athletic Commission. As it turned out, Fox's CSAC paperwork, which included medical documentation of her transgender surgeries, was under review, and she wasn't licensed in the state.

Fox told SI.com that she believed she had a California license – in fact, it was merely a receipt for the fee she paid – and didn't disclose her status because she was never asked. The CSAC subsequently said it would modify its forms to make the distinction between a receipt and license clearer, and the FDBPR said it would review its disclosure policies.

Fox's manager, Brett Atchley, wrote via text that Fox (2-0) will fight tournament semifinal opponent Allana Jones (2-1) as planned. However, Jones' manager said that decision has yet to be made.

"The last conversation we had with [CFA] was that they were waiting until April 5 to see what the commission's decision was going to be with Fallon's license," said Jones manager Glen Bailey. "Obviously, I have concerns about this fight. Not so much that I'm worried about Allana losing; losses happen within the sport. But the circumstances surrounding it.

"I've spoken with several different doctors about any kind of physical advantage, and I'm waiting for an opinion to be written for me from a doctor out of Arizona that is very familiar with the fighting world – actually, is very familiar with Fallon's case. At this point and time, I can't say, yes, we'll take it. But I'm not going to say, no, we won't take the fight either. I think there are some questions that are going to have to be answered."

http://www.mmajunkie.com/news/2013/03/promoter-sets-cfa-11-for-may-24-with-fallon-fox-fight-planned

PRIDE FC wrote:

nodogoshi wrote:

PRIDE FC wrote:

nodogoshi wrote:But, I must say that I am fully against transexual females competing with females. I'm against Donna Rose wrestling with women in the US Open, too. That she is in her 50s and still competitive, probably has something to do with the physiological differences in my mind.

Agree 100%. It´s not fair to "real" women.

This may sound bigoted to some people's pallet. But I don't mean it that way.

If transexual females want to compete in combat sports, they should compete against each other.

Anything else, I do not find acceptable.

They should compete against men if they are born men. If they are born as women they should compete against women. It doesn´t matter what they feel like on the inside when it comes to sports.

I essentially agree.

Donna Rose seems to be a good case of this.

She even referenced during the interview that she had built up more muscle, although she did so with an ironic tone.

I can't make an absolute statement on this though, because there are genetic conditions in which people are not clearly one gender nor the other. That is an issue. But, men who feel that they would like to be the other sex, attend counseling for a year, undergo hormonal 'treatment', and then have a surgical procedure should not have the 'right' to compete against women, most especially in combat sports.

nodogoshi wrote:

PRIDE FC wrote:

nodogoshi wrote:

PRIDE FC wrote:

nodogoshi wrote:But, I must say that I am fully against transexual females competing with females. I'm against Donna Rose wrestling with women in the US Open, too. That she is in her 50s and still competitive, probably has something to do with the physiological differences in my mind.

Agree 100%. It´s not fair to "real" women.

This may sound bigoted to some people's pallet. But I don't mean it that way.

If transexual females want to compete in combat sports, they should compete against each other.

Anything else, I do not find acceptable.

They should compete against men if they are born men. If they are born as women they should compete against women. It doesn´t matter what they feel like on the inside when it comes to sports.

I essentially agree.

Donna Rose seems to be a good case of this.

She even referenced during the interview that she had built up more muscle, although she did so with an ironic tone.

I can't make an absolute statement on this though, because there are genetic conditions in which people are not clearly one gender nor the other. That is an issue. But, men who feel that they would like to be the other sex, attend counseling for a year, undergo hormonal 'treatment', and then have a surgical procedure should not have the 'right' to compete against women, most especially in combat sports.

In cases where it´s impossible to determine the gender I think the person should compete against men because it´s obviously not a 100% woman and women are much weaker as athletes. I would say if the person has the tools to give birth to a baby it´s a woman.

PRIDE FC wrote:

nodogoshi wrote:

PRIDE FC wrote:

nodogoshi wrote:

PRIDE FC wrote:
Agree 100%. It´s not fair to "real" women.

This may sound bigoted to some people's pallet. But I don't mean it that way.

If transexual females want to compete in combat sports, they should compete against each other.

Anything else, I do not find acceptable.

They should compete against men if they are born men. If they are born as women they should compete against women. It doesn´t matter what they feel like on the inside when it comes to sports.

I essentially agree.

Donna Rose seems to be a good case of this.

She even referenced during the interview that she had built up more muscle, although she did so with an ironic tone.

I can't make an absolute statement on this though, because there are genetic conditions in which people are not clearly one gender nor the other. That is an issue. But, men who feel that they would like to be the other sex, attend counseling for a year, undergo hormonal 'treatment', and then have a surgical procedure should not have the 'right' to compete against women, most especially in combat sports.

In cases where it´s impossible to determine the gender I think the person should compete against men because it´s obviously not a 100% woman and women are much weaker as athletes. I would say if the person has the tools to give birth to a baby it´s a woman.

I love watching women's judo, and I like watching women's wrestling too. Especially judo though, because they often execute throws that the men don't necessarily do.

But, there are physiological differences.

Why do you think it is so much more common for a man to beat his wife than the other way around?

nodogoshi wrote:

PRIDE FC wrote:

nodogoshi wrote:

PRIDE FC wrote:

nodogoshi wrote:

PRIDE FC wrote:
Agree 100%. It´s not fair to "real" women.

This may sound bigoted to some people's pallet. But I don't mean it that way.

If transexual females want to compete in combat sports, they should compete against each other.

Anything else, I do not find acceptable.

They should compete against men if they are born men. If they are born as women they should compete against women. It doesn´t matter what they feel like on the inside when it comes to sports.

I essentially agree.

Donna Rose seems to be a good case of this.

She even referenced during the interview that she had built up more muscle, although she did so with an ironic tone.

I can't make an absolute statement on this though, because there are genetic conditions in which people are not clearly one gender nor the other. That is an issue. But, men who feel that they would like to be the other sex, attend counseling for a year, undergo hormonal 'treatment', and then have a surgical procedure should not have the 'right' to compete against women, most especially in combat sports.

In cases where it´s impossible to determine the gender I think the person should compete against men because it´s obviously not a 100% woman and women are much weaker as athletes. I would say if the person has the tools to give birth to a baby it´s a woman.

I love watching women's judo, and I like watching women's wrestling too. Especially judo though, because they often execute throws that the men don't necessarily do.

But, there are physiological differences.

Why do you think it is so much more common for a man to beat his wife than the other way around?

Yeah there´s no difference when it comes to the brain but the male body is completely different than the female body with more muscle power.