Who is the Number 1 Welterweight Outside the UFC, Askren or Burkman

CDF47 wrote:

PRIDE FC wrote:If Zuffa and all other promotions were forced to use non-exclusive contracts everything would be great. The fans wouldn´t say UFC fighters are the best and Bellator, M-1, KSW, ONE fighters are cans. Then fans would start following the actual fighters and the sport instead of a brand.

Either that or mandatory bi-annual cross-promotional super bowl type events pitting top champions against each other for world titles overseen by a recognized sanctioning body.

Putting the Champs against each other is not enough. All fighters on the UFC roster need to fight in in other promotions with ring and different rules/scoring to show the fans what mma is all about. I´m 100 sure the UFC fanboys would be shocked by the outcome of these fights.

PRIDE FC wrote:

CDF47 wrote:

PRIDE FC wrote:If Zuffa and all other promotions were forced to use non-exclusive contracts everything would be great. The fans wouldn´t say UFC fighters are the best and Bellator, M-1, KSW, ONE fighters are cans. Then fans would start following the actual fighters and the sport instead of a brand.

Either that or mandatory bi-annual cross-promotional super bowl type events pitting top champions against each other for world titles overseen by a recognized sanctioning body.

Putting the Champs against each other is not enough. All fighters on the UFC roster need to fight in in other promotions with ring and different rules/scoring to show the fans what mma is all about. I´m 100 sure the UFC fanboys would be shocked by the outcome of these fights.

It would make for some surprising outcomes. Could have a sanctioning body that forced contender fights outside the promotion as well here and there setting up for the big title event.

I'd have to go with Burkman. The ability to finish fights is an important factor.

It's closer now than at the beginning.  Askren up by 3.

I picked Askren over Burkman.

burkman has no chance against askren lol
burkman profile is back in ufc website??
http://www.ufc.com/fighter/Josh-Burkman

Burkman has had his fair share of painfully boring decisions, especially back when he fought in the UFC 

Davidson 45 wrote:I'd have to go with Burkman. The ability to finish fights is an important factor.

Kingfedor wrote:burkman has no chance against askren lol
burkman profile is back in ufc website??
http://www.ufc.com/fighter/Josh-Burkman

I wonder why they did that.  I believe he has a 6 fight deal with WSOF.

I would have to go with Burkman on this one

Also for my argument for Burkman, with his impressive streak in WSOF, topped off with the irony of putting to sleep a high level opponent who has put many fans to sleep over the years, is pretty damn awesome. So that along with the great victory too, and finishing guys, is why I would give the slight nod to Burkman.

 Askren is obviously deserving too, he's a phenomenal wrestler, embraces the grind very much so, and executes his grinder style very well. However, if he had a few more finishes, rather than practically all grinded out decisions, then I most definitely would give the edge to him. For now though, I say Burkman for number 1.

A guy should never be over-rated for finishing a fight at the start. Fighters are far more vulnerable for flash stoppages early in a fight, for many reasons (not warmed up, getting blitzed, etc.). Also, Fitch is 1-3 in his last 4 fights now, with two of the losses coming inside of a minute. Burkman certainly deserves a solid ranking, but he is certainly not #1 in my opinion. I can see 3 or 4 as reasonable.

Of course if the question is just who would win (i.e. between him and Askren), I could see an argument for Burkman, but I lean in favor of Askren at this point. I just want to see if Burkman can keep up his streak or not.

nodogoshi wrote:A guy should never be over-rated for finishing a fight at the start. Fighters are far more vulnerable for flash stoppages early in a fight, for many reasons (not warmed up, getting blitzed, etc.). Also, Fitch is 1-3 in his last 4 fights now, with two of the losses coming inside of a minute. Burkman certainly deserves a solid ranking, but he is certainly not #1 in my opinion. I can see 3 or 4 as reasonable.

Of course if the question is just who would win (i.e. between him and Askren), I could see an argument for Burkman, but I lean in favor of Askren at this point. I just want to see if Burkman can keep up his streak or not

I definitely see where you are coming from man and I respect your point of view, but in my opinion, whether it's the start of the fight, mid/late 1st, 2nd, 3rd, whenever. If a guy manages to finish his opponent during in what you refer to as the "early and vulnerable to be finished time frame" I don't see how that should be taken away or bring down the result of a victory, at all. The goal is to finish your opponent, and if that happens, in 7 secs, a min, whatever the time may be, shouldn't make a difference in how that finish is weighed.

War Cigano wrote:

nodogoshi wrote:A guy should never be over-rated for finishing a fight at the start. Fighters are far more vulnerable for flash stoppages early in a fight, for many reasons (not warmed up, getting blitzed, etc.). Also, Fitch is 1-3 in his last 4 fights now, with two of the losses coming inside of a minute. Burkman certainly deserves a solid ranking, but he is certainly not #1 in my opinion. I can see 3 or 4 as reasonable.

Of course if the question is just who would win (i.e. between him and Askren), I could see an argument for Burkman, but I lean in favor of Askren at this point. I just want to see if Burkman can keep up his streak or not

I definitely see where you are coming from man and I respect your point of view, but in my opinion, whether it's the start of the fight, mid/late 1st, 2nd, 3rd, whenever. If a guy manages to finish his opponent during in what you refer to as the "early and vulnerable to be finished time frame" I don't see how that should be taken away or bring down the result of a victory, at all. The goal is to finish your opponent, and if that happens, in 7 secs, a min, whatever the time may be, shouldn't make a difference in how that finish is weighed.

My point is more so that you should be careful to not over-rate a guy based on it. A win is a win. But a so often people see a highly regarded guy get sparked out quick, and are ready to anoint the winner to a place higher than they deserve. I'm not saying it should be counted less (though it could be), but that it shouldn't count for more.

Askren would dryhump Burkman into obscurity.

War Cigano wrote:Also for my argument for Burkman, with his impressive streak in WSOF, topped off with the irony of putting to sleep a high level opponent who has put many fans to sleep over the years, is pretty damn awesome. So that along with the great victory too, and finishing guys, is why I would give the slight nod to Burkman.

 Askren is obviously deserving too, he's a phenomenal wrestler, embraces the grind very much so, and executes his grinder style very well. However, if he had a few more finishes, rather than practically all grinded out decisions, then I most definitely would give the edge to him. For now though, I say Burkman for number 1.

Askren GNP seemed to improve with his last fight where he finally got a finish.  Koreshkov fight will prove if this improvement continues. 

Burkman has been real good in WSOF.  Was a huge win for him on Friday which has him right now with 40% of the votes to be rated top WW outside UFC which on it's own is impressive.  He is that close to being considered the top guy.

Askren wins hands down it almost would have been better if burkman decision Fitch showing dominance

It was a great finish but ANYONE can get caught early its like werdums victory over fedor it was great but bigfoots win over fedor much more dominant.

Burkman Fitch rubber match is in order.

Just cuz burkman beat Fitch doesn't make him #1 as stated by wekka IMO askrens wins over more diverse opponents and the fashion in which he completely shut down those guys outweighs a somewhat of a fluke win over a zuffa Guy.

Askren wouldn't waste time standing burkman would be on his back 10 sec into the fight and would remain there until it was over.honestly askren would most likely fo the same to Fitch.

Askren would probably wrestlefuck Burkman had they fought. That said I voted for Burkman on the sole basis of him being very entertaining as of late.

Askren takes biggest lead yet, 17 vote lead.  It's still 60% to 40% which is close percentage wise but overall lead increases.

Well Askren would beat Burkman.

Sweet Pea Is My Mom wrote:Well Askren would beat Burkman.

He would probably be the favorite.  Burkman would have to catch him with punches on the feet and finish him to beat him I would think, similar to the Fitch fight.  I would pick Askren as well though.

CDF47 wrote:

Sweet Pea Is My Mom wrote:Well Askren would beat Burkman.

He would probably be the favorite.  Burkman would have to catch him with punches on the feet and finish him to beat him I would think, similar to the Fitch fight.  I would pick Askren as well though.

I think it's more of a case that Fitch was semi-shot (I know he was coming off a few good wins, but he is definitely a lot more vulnerable post-Hendricks KO) and Simpson is known glass. I give Burkman his props, though. I'd love to see him beat Ben.

8)

Why do you guys think Burkman should be ranked higher than Magomedov? Burkman should not be higher than #3 at this point.

^I think that is a close one.  They both now beat top ranked fighters.  Burkman's win over Fitch by guillotine in 41 seconds is what is giving him the nod.

22 vote lead now.  Askren has this.