Jon Jones vs. Machida pre-fight presser

Fri Nov 25, 2011 2:40 am

Jon Jones said his advantages over Machida are his youth, versatility and THE WAY HE APPROACHES THE SPORT. How pretentious can you get? What a horrible answer.

I can't believe nobody asked him to follow up on that answer.

http://mma-geeks.com/2011/11/22/ufc-140-pre-fight-press-conference/

then jones has this smug grin on his face when dana says rashad claims he has jon's number from training. god i hate jones. he's the number one guy on my list of guy's i want to see get KTFO.

Fri Nov 25, 2011 3:44 am

Dapperdoo wrote:Jon Jones said his advantages over Machida are his youth, versatility and THE WAY HE APPROACHES THE SPORT. How pretentious can you get? What a horrible answer.

I can't believe nobody asked him to follow up on that answer.

http://mma-geeks.com/2011/11/22/ufc-140-pre-fight-press-conference/

This kid is going to come crashing down to earth at some point soon. The A-hole has never even been hit flush in the face yet. You can't learn how to have a good chin on Youtube. You can't do new-era weighting training or conditioning to change the shape of your mandible and cranium. Do you think this guy's gonna go his next 28 fights with out getting smashed about the face & head really hard and become GOAT???

I'll tell you what, a PRIDE Shogun, or a Machida II Shogun would have been a much different story against Jones. He did not meet a prime Shogun that night to say the least.

Really Jone's only legit wins against top of the heap guys is Shogun & Rampage. Were either of those guys 100%. Did either guy have a good showing. Did either guy have a good game plan? That's two wins against really good opponents not at their best out of 15 fights.

Machida is one of the top strikers in all of MMA. Machida is going to make Jone's come to get him all fight. Who is arguably the hardest guy to hit in all of MMA??? Lyoto will take Jone's reach advantage away by retreating, avoid punches and counter punching him hard and accurately when Jones missed or deflected punches travel past him. Machida will stay just outside of Jones reach as he is famous for. To get to him Jones is going to have to really come forward and commit, or over commit to his punches.

It is also extreme hard to shoot on a retreating Machida. Unless he wants to move forward to exchange Jones is going to find it hard to TD a constantly retreating/back pedaling Machida. You can't front kick or side kick to the knee a guy who is retreating rapidly when he was already standing 5 or 6 feet away. At the very least not that effectively.

It took 17 fights, 9 in the UFC, for someone and their coaches/trainers to figure out the eternally unsolvable puzzle that was the Machida-era. I think Machida may have solved the Jones Jones puzzle when he was a teenager in his father's Shotokan Karate dojo.

Jon Jones vs. Machida pre-fight presser 300pxshotokanjapanesesv

Jon Jones vs. Machida pre-fight presser 300pxshotokanjapanesesv

Sat Nov 26, 2011 1:53 pm

Dapperdoo wrote:Since you clearly think that I have no credentials in highlight making I'll make a Shogun highlight you could only dream of making. Watch me.

Jon Jones vs. Machida pre-fight presser F404ba92b2450140a6500c5320fc3599

Sat Nov 26, 2011 2:41 pm

exams finish on monday. then i'll start makin it Wink

great post dagwood and i agree

Mon Nov 28, 2011 9:33 pm

Are you criticising Jones for not getting punched in the face enough? That seems an odd criticism, and a metric by which you realise that James Thompson is awesome. It's even odder that you do this while praising Machida, who was similarly untested by hard shots for most of his career. When he finally wore one, he went down really hard. I don't mean that as an insult by any means, Shogun hits really hard.

Not to mention that if you want to criticise Resumes, Machida is pretty easy to do that to. If you want to dismiss fights against fellow up and comers (like Bader for Jones) then Thiago Silva isn't much of a win, neither are older journeymen, like Tito Ortiz or Nakamura. And if you want to discredit wins because of opponent's bad game plans, then the Rashad win doesn't count either.

However, I wouldn't dismiss any of those wins for either fighter. Machida may have fought questionable level competition, but he looked amazing and untouchable doing it. That's kind of why people are excited about Jones. You can argue about whether "Healthy Shogun" showed up(does he ever?), but Jones walked through him. Rampage didn't look his best, but Jones didn't lose a round to him. Sure, Vera's Vera, but that fight looked like a gangly kid trying to fight their dad.

I think Jones undoubtedly has some weaknesses. I think the last time a Greg Jackson fighter took on Machida it lead to the funniest knockout face ever. I think Machida's a really interesting stylistic match up and I can't wait.

Mon Nov 28, 2011 10:37 pm

Jingles wrote:Are you criticising Jones for not getting punched in the face enough? That seems an odd criticism, and a metric by which you realise that James Thompson is awesome. It's even odder that you do this while praising Machida, who was similarly untested by hard shots for most of his career. When he finally wore one, he went down really hard. I don't mean that as an insult by any means, Shogun hits really hard.

Not to mention that if you want to criticise Resumes, Machida is pretty easy to do that to. If you want to dismiss fights against fellow up and comers (like Bader for Jones) then Thiago Silva isn't much of a win, neither are older journeymen, like Tito Ortiz or Nakamura. And if you want to discredit wins because of opponent's bad game plans, then the Rashad win doesn't count either.

However, I wouldn't dismiss any of those wins for either fighter. Machida may have fought questionable level competition, but he looked amazing and untouchable doing it. That's kind of why people are excited about Jones. You can argue about whether "Healthy Shogun" showed up(does he ever?), but Jones walked through him. Rampage didn't look his best, but Jones didn't lose a round to him. Sure, Vera's Vera, but that fight looked like a gangly kid trying to fight their dad.

I think Jones undoubtedly has some weaknesses. I think the last time a Greg Jackson fighter took on Machida it lead to the funniest knockout face ever. I think Machida's a really interesting stylistic match up and I can't wait.

I very much agree with you on the Jones vs Machida's style head to head and that it will be very interesting to watch.

Jones' durability is as untested to this point in his career as just about anyone I've seen. Machida got hit about the head and face more in the first 2-3 minutes of the BJ Penn fight than Jones has had to withstand his entire career. This is huge unknown factor. I can't imagine this continuing until 2019.

My point is really that Jones himself and most of the MMA community is bestowing the soon-to-be 'best eva' crown upon him when his chin and durability has not really been tested for whatever reason. This has never been done before. No fighter has ever been spoken of, including Fedor, Anderson, et al, in the terms that Jones is (including himself eluding to this) without having been proven extremely durable. Not to mention how well they overcome adversity in fights. This one little unknown can turn Samson into Delila in a second. Many a promising new boxing career has been brought to a halt by not being able to take a punch or punishment.

If Jones can keep up the same without getting his chin tested for another 28 fights, I will conceded that he is the new breed, new school, genetically MMA superior (black) messiah of the new age of MMA. Until then he has a lot to prove to me.

I won't even go into to the suspect striking , suspect punching power and his penchant for throwing more than borderline-legal strikes.

Mon Nov 28, 2011 11:08 pm

Why 28? That seems entirely arbitrary. He's already at 15

Also, in terms of power, He has very few standing knockouts, but he beat Shogun so badly that he either tapped to strikes or fought the whole fight essentially KO'd (depending which theory you ascribe to. I still think it was the straight punches against the fence early in the first that did the most damage) And we saw what Shogun could take the other weekend (I did anyway, I don't know if you watch UFC events) Not to mention that Machida, in his whole career, has three standing KOs: Franklin, Couture and Rashad (Thiago Silva was a ridiculous diving superman punch, it was amazing) So that may not be the best test of power.

Not to mention that he actually has worn a couple of heavy shots. Vera landed an illegal upkick at one point, which seemed to just make him cross. He certainly didn't break and run or get knocked out. He went on to literally break Vera's face less than a minute later, so, again, it seems safe to say he's got some power.

Not to mention that if he's really good at avoiding damage, his chin, good or bad, is not really a factor, the way it wasn't for Machida for most of his career and isn't now for Dominick Cruz, or the way whether Chuck Liddell (or Crocop) was good off his back or not wasn't really a factor.

Hype trains are dumb. They always are. But seriously, what are you expecting a fight promoter to say? "He dominated Matyushenko, who's sort of a gatekeeper with some good wins, but nowhere near the top of the division" They're not going to qualify his every win, because that's not the business they're in. Fedor was never advertised by Pride as "The number one heavyweight, who got suplexed by Kevin Randleman and nearly KO'd by Fujita, and who got clowned by Ricardo Arona on the ground" they're not going to qualify his status, because there's not going to be a fighter that has not a single asterix on his career who's record you can take at face value. It would be like a movie trailer warning you about the dumb subplot that never goes anywhere, or that their twist was done better elsewhere. They're selling Jones' next fight. If you're referring to MMA forums, they're all terrible and everyone is either the greatest now or was or will be (Daniel Cormier is the number 3 heavyweight right now according to some)

Not to mention that basically no one in the UFC has put together a string of finishes like him in quite some time. The most stable winning streaks all either belong to proven, elite fighters, like Andy and GSP, have huge asterixes (like Royce) are fighters who, due to various circumstances, ended up fighting a lot of people not on their level (Jim Miller, Melvin Guillard) or are fighters who play it very safe and conservatively (Gray Maynard, Jon Fitch, GSP as of late) Jon Jones has gone from decisioning Andre Gusmao (who? exactly) to dominating Shogun. He's gotten better and more dominant with more or less every fight.

I agree that crowing him the future greatest is silly. But there's a lot of reasons to be pretty excited about Jones.

EDIT: also, did you see his damn fight with Rampage? Aside from the statistical anomaly of being the only guy to finish him in the UFC (and one of only three to ever finish him) He also came within moments of hitting a flying triangle on him.

Tue Nov 29, 2011 4:21 am

Jingles wrote:Are you criticising Jones for not getting punched in the face enough? That seems an odd criticism, and a metric by which you realise that James Thompson is awesome. It's even odder that you do this while praising Machida, who was similarly untested by hard shots for most of his career. When he finally wore one, he went down really hard. I don't mean that as an insult by any means, Shogun hits really hard.

I agree with Dagwood, at 15 fights Jon Jones still remains untested and still a bit green around the edges. His only two biggest wins came from two aging warriors in Rua and Jackson who clearly wasnt performing at their best that night (none of Jon's fault). The fact remains that JJ has more fights and more challenges before he can be hyped up to what he is now.

Tue Nov 29, 2011 4:31 am

Jingles wrote:

I agree that crowing him the future greatest is silly. But there's a lot of reasons to be pretty excited about Jones.

EDIT: also, did you see his damn fight with Rampage? Aside from the statistical anomaly of being the only guy to finish him in the UFC (and one of only three to ever finish him) He also came within moments of hitting a flying triangle on him.

JJ is a good fighter but sometimes people should just wait out how things work out and wait for fighters to earn it.

Weve seen something like 4 or 5 up and coming HW fighters billed by Zuffa as the best and greatest. Fans hang on their balls and when they loose the next fight promptly jump off the band wagon and hitch a ride on the nest fad.

Let JJ first prove himself and lets see him fight through tougher situations first.

Tue Nov 29, 2011 4:40 am

@Dag, great post.

Can't wait to see Jon Jones get fucked up and sent to the hospital.

He thinks he is the greatest of all time.

I would have loved to see Jones get soccer kicked and stomped out by Shogun back in Pride.

If you've never been soccer kicked/stomped/knee'd on the ground you cannot say you've been in a fight and cannot claim you are the GOAT.

Here's to MACHIDA breaking that kids nose in all places and Randy Couture kicking him in the face to take a tooth home to brazil.

Tue Nov 29, 2011 7:38 am

monaroCountry wrote:

Jingles wrote:

I agree that crowing him the future greatest is silly. But there's a lot of reasons to be pretty excited about Jones.

EDIT: also, did you see his damn fight with Rampage? Aside from the statistical anomaly of being the only guy to finish him in the UFC (and one of only three to ever finish him) He also came within moments of hitting a flying triangle on him.

JJ is a good fighter but sometimes people should just wait out how things work out and wait for fighters to earn it.

Weve seen something like 4 or 5 up and coming HW fighters billed by Zuffa as the best and greatest. Fans hang on their balls and when they loose the next fight promptly jump off the band wagon and hitch a ride on the nest fad.

Let JJ first prove himself and lets see him fight through tougher situations first.

There it is again, this idea that he's green because he hasn't fought his way out of tough situations. Is a fighter forever untested unless they nearly lose? What if he's simply good enough to avoid damage for his whole career?

The thing is, prior to the Shogun fight, I was still really skeptical. I thought something along the lines of "Oh, his striking will have so many holes for Shogun to exploit" Then he walked through him. "Oh" I thought, "surely Rampage, with his ridiculous knockout power, will land something." Nope, Rampage was gunshy the entire fight after Jones landed some really sweet side kicks to his knees. Finally, Jones pushed him over and effortlessly choked him out. At this point, if you still believe that Jones is all hype, I'm not sure what to say, especially not if you're going to hold up Machida, who, by the standards you're applying to Jones, is perhaps even more untested. How many top wins does he have in the last five years? There was the close win over Shogun and the knockout of Rashad, but before that, his resume looks about as good as Jones: Journeymen and fellow up and comers.

I'm also not saying that Jones is the second coming nor that Machida is a scrub or anything. Light Heavyweight has had an incredibly unstable title picture, with each title fight being brutally one sided. It's still early days for Jones. But honestly, he's shown that he is legit.

All that said, Jones is a terrible interviewee and should never be allowed to speak near a microphone.

Tue Nov 29, 2011 8:05 am

Jingles wrote:

monaroCountry wrote:

Jingles wrote:

I agree that crowing him the future greatest is silly. But there's a lot of reasons to be pretty excited about Jones.

EDIT: also, did you see his damn fight with Rampage? Aside from the statistical anomaly of being the only guy to finish him in the UFC (and one of only three to ever finish him) He also came within moments of hitting a flying triangle on him.

JJ is a good fighter but sometimes people should just wait out how things work out and wait for fighters to earn it.

Weve seen something like 4 or 5 up and coming HW fighters billed by Zuffa as the best and greatest. Fans hang on their balls and when they loose the next fight promptly jump off the band wagon and hitch a ride on the nest fad.

Let JJ first prove himself and lets see him fight through tougher situations first.

There it is again, this idea that he's green because he hasn't fought his way out of tough situations. Is a fighter forever untested unless they nearly lose? What if he's simply good enough to avoid damage for his whole career?

The thing is, prior to the Shogun fight, I was still really skeptical. I thought something along the lines of "Oh, his striking will have so many holes for Shogun to exploit" Then he walked through him. "Oh" I thought, "surely Rampage, with his ridiculous knockout power, will land something." Nope, Rampage was gunshy the entire fight after Jones landed some really sweet side kicks to his knees. Finally, Jones pushed him over and effortlessly choked him out. At this point, if you still believe that Jones is all hype, I'm not sure what to say, especially not if you're going to hold up Machida, who, by the standards you're applying to Jones, is perhaps even more untested. How many top wins does he have in the last five years? There was the close win over Shogun and the knockout of Rashad, but before that, his resume looks about as good as Jones: Journeymen and fellow up and comers.

So how many top wins has he had against fighters at their prime who actually challenged him on the ground, with striking, and also went through a long distance.

JJ would be excused if he actually fought more than two good fighters, at this time he isnt nowhere near the level that hes hyped up to be. This situation is a bit like Brock Lesnar and Shane Carwin. A bunch of wins and a belt and then Zuffa made them out to be the best and baddest, only when they were tested that we saw how green they actually were, how many holes they had in their game.

All I say is that give JJ a chance to truely prove his worth and dont fall in the hype train.

Tue Nov 29, 2011 12:44 pm

I hear what your saying Jingles. I do agree with some of it.

Jones is a natural talent and now has the LHW at a very young age. The Superman stuff that is being thrown at him is as of yet unwarranted. Especially the stuff he throws at his self. He'll have to win 28 more straight fights until 2019 while showing what his heart, mind & chin are really made of.

IMO - circumstance of opponent shape or fight readiness have been just as important in his 2 top-tier LHW victories, the last for a belt. Forrest Griffin beat a Shogun that looked condition-wise, speed-wise & power-wise to me like the Shogun that showed up for the Jones fight. This has been a well-documented problem for Shogun in the UFC. Forrest is not in Shogun's league as we saw in the second fight. Not even close. Can't take away that Jones won the belt with the win against Shogun... but it was against a team with a lot of starters sidelined and the second stringers couldn't rise to the challenge.

Shogun or Machida vs Bader, Matyushenko or Vera would have bloodbaths as well. Those wins for Jones don't add that much weight to me in this argument.

If this guy continues to appear to outclass all comers for the next year or two, and answers some of the unanswered questions I laid out... then he is as good as everybody, including himself, thinks he is.

Tue Nov 29, 2011 4:22 pm

monaroCountry wrote:

Jingles wrote:

monaroCountry wrote:

Jingles wrote:

I agree that crowing him the future greatest is silly. But there's a lot of reasons to be pretty excited about Jones.

EDIT: also, did you see his damn fight with Rampage? Aside from the statistical anomaly of being the only guy to finish him in the UFC (and one of only three to ever finish him) He also came within moments of hitting a flying triangle on him.

JJ is a good fighter but sometimes people should just wait out how things work out and wait for fighters to earn it.

Weve seen something like 4 or 5 up and coming HW fighters billed by Zuffa as the best and greatest. Fans hang on their balls and when they loose the next fight promptly jump off the band wagon and hitch a ride on the nest fad.

Let JJ first prove himself and lets see him fight through tougher situations first.

There it is again, this idea that he's green because he hasn't fought his way out of tough situations. Is a fighter forever untested unless they nearly lose? What if he's simply good enough to avoid damage for his whole career?

The thing is, prior to the Shogun fight, I was still really skeptical. I thought something along the lines of "Oh, his striking will have so many holes for Shogun to exploit" Then he walked through him. "Oh" I thought, "surely Rampage, with his ridiculous knockout power, will land something." Nope, Rampage was gunshy the entire fight after Jones landed some really sweet side kicks to his knees. Finally, Jones pushed him over and effortlessly choked him out. At this point, if you still believe that Jones is all hype, I'm not sure what to say, especially not if you're going to hold up Machida, who, by the standards you're applying to Jones, is perhaps even more untested. How many top wins does he have in the last five years? There was the close win over Shogun and the knockout of Rashad, but before that, his resume looks about as good as Jones: Journeymen and fellow up and comers.

So how many top wins has he had against fighters at their prime who actually challenged him on the ground, with striking, and also went through a long distance.

JJ would be excused if he actually fought more than two good fighters, at this time he isnt nowhere near the level that hes hyped up to be. This situation is a bit like Brock Lesnar and Shane Carwin. A bunch of wins and a belt and then Zuffa made them out to be the best and baddest, only when they were tested that we saw how green they actually were, how many holes they had in their game.

All I say is that give JJ a chance to truely prove his worth and dont fall in the hype train.

Even if you only count Shogun and Rampage as top wins, he's still beaten more legit top ranked (I know rankings are dumb, bear with me) opponents than Machida or Shogun or even Rampage in the last few years. Shogun had a great run in Pride, but in the last few years, Shogun has struggled against the ghost of Mark Coleman (who hadn't fought in two years at the time and was roughly a thousand years old) the ghost of Chuck Liddell, lost to Forrest (and looked horrible doing it) and been on the wrong side of one of the most one sided title fights in recent memory. Now, I'm not disparaging him, nor would any of you, you undoubtedly believe he's a top talent, and I believe he could be consistently if it wasn't for bad knees/illness/training camps/whatever, but as soon as you start picking apart his resume, it looks kind of unimpressive, and it does so without any of the mental gymnastics you need to do to pick apart Jones.

By comparison, Jones has looked better every fight. It's not really anything like Lesnar or Carwin, who aren't even like each other. Lesnar had two fights in the UFC before his title shot. One of which he lost. Carwin actually had beaten the closest things you get to fellow contenders at heavyweight in Mir and Gonzaga. Heavyweight is a terrible, shallow division, no one's resume looks impressive at heavyweight. Dos Santos' doesn't, Cain's doesn't, you can even pick apart Big Nog's if you feel like it. 205, while it isn't the best division, actually has a proper hierarchy you can work your way up, and Jones did that over the course of three years, going from fellow newcomers and no names, through journeymen like Bonnar and Matyuhsenko and whatever Vera is. He won all of these fights decisively before getting a crack at the top of the division, where he continued to win decisively. No, he probably isn't the second coming, but he's very much a legit top LHW.

Tue Nov 29, 2011 4:39 pm

Dagwood wrote:I hear what your saying Jingles. I do agree with some of it.

Jones is a natural talent and now has the LHW at a very young age. The Superman stuff that is being thrown at him is as of yet unwarranted. Especially the stuff he throws at his self. He'll have to win 28 more straight fights until 2019 while showing what his heart, mind & chin are really made of.

IMO - circumstance of opponent shape or fight readiness have been just as important in his 2 top-tier LHW victories, the last for a belt. Forrest Griffin beat a Shogun that looked condition-wise, speed-wise & power-wise to me like the Shogun that showed up for the Jones fight. This has been a well-documented problem for Shogun in the UFC. Forrest is not in Shogun's league as we saw in the second fight. Not even close. Can't take away that Jones won the belt with the win against Shogun... but it was against a team with a lot of starters sidelined and the second stringers couldn't rise to the challenge.

Shogun or Machida vs Bader, Matyushenko or Vera would have bloodbaths as well. Those wins for Jones don't add that much weight to me in this argument.

If this guy continues to appear to outclass all comers for the next year or two, and answers some of the unanswered questions I laid out... then he is as good as everybody, including himself, thinks he is.

Seriously, why 28? that'll give him a total of 43, which seems completely arbitrary.

Tue Nov 29, 2011 4:53 pm

Jingles wrote:

Dagwood wrote:I hear what your saying Jingles. I do agree with some of it.

Jones is a natural talent and now has the LHW at a very young age. The Superman stuff that is being thrown at him is as of yet unwarranted. Especially the stuff he throws at his self. He'll have to win 28 more straight fights until 2019 while showing what his heart, mind & chin are really made of.

IMO - circumstance of opponent shape or fight readiness have been just as important in his 2 top-tier LHW victories, the last for a belt. Forrest Griffin beat a Shogun that looked condition-wise, speed-wise & power-wise to me like the Shogun that showed up for the Jones fight. This has been a well-documented problem for Shogun in the UFC. Forrest is not in Shogun's league as we saw in the second fight. Not even close. Can't take away that Jones won the belt with the win against Shogun... but it was against a team with a lot of starters sidelined and the second stringers couldn't rise to the challenge.

Shogun or Machida vs Bader, Matyushenko or Vera would have bloodbaths as well. Those wins for Jones don't add that much weight to me in this argument.

If this guy continues to appear to outclass all comers for the next year or two, and answers some of the unanswered questions I laid out... then he is as good as everybody, including himself, thinks he is.

Seriously, why 28? that'll give him a total of 43, which seems completely arbitrary.

Jones currently has 5 straight wins.

Tue Nov 29, 2011 5:30 pm

Dagwood wrote:

Jingles wrote:

Dagwood wrote:I hear what your saying Jingles. I do agree with some of it.

Jones is a natural talent and now has the LHW at a very young age. The Superman stuff that is being thrown at him is as of yet unwarranted. Especially the stuff he throws at his self. He'll have to win 28 more straight fights until 2019 while showing what his heart, mind & chin are really made of.

IMO - circumstance of opponent shape or fight readiness have been just as important in his 2 top-tier LHW victories, the last for a belt. Forrest Griffin beat a Shogun that looked condition-wise, speed-wise & power-wise to me like the Shogun that showed up for the Jones fight. This has been a well-documented problem for Shogun in the UFC. Forrest is not in Shogun's league as we saw in the second fight. Not even close. Can't take away that Jones won the belt with the win against Shogun... but it was against a team with a lot of starters sidelined and the second stringers couldn't rise to the challenge.

Shogun or Machida vs Bader, Matyushenko or Vera would have bloodbaths as well. Those wins for Jones don't add that much weight to me in this argument.

If this guy continues to appear to outclass all comers for the next year or two, and answers some of the unanswered questions I laid out... then he is as good as everybody, including himself, thinks he is.

Seriously, why 28? that'll give him a total of 43, which seems completely arbitrary.

Jones currently has 5 straight wins.

So a total of 33, which is the same as Fedor, right? (just had to check, he had 31, so that's not it)
If you've watched the fight (It was on a TUF finale, so I don't want to assume) the loss to Matt Hammil was a loss the same way Fedor's loss to TK was: a loss via technicality. It is in no way someone actually beating him. It was a DQ due to the 12-6 elbow rule after Hammil couldn't continue, which most people agree is a pretty dumb one (it's based on a doctor who was helping codify the rules having seen someone break bricks with downward elbows, serious). It is technically a loss, but not one that in anyway matters in terms of discussing how good he is.
Also, if you want to talk untested, at the same point (15 fights) Fedor actually had a kind of similar resume. He had one great win (Big Nog) a journeyman/mid tier guy (Herring) somebody who might have been good but wasn't (Schilt, despite his many K-1 achievements, never excelled in MMA) and Renato Sobral, oh, and the ridiculous loss to TK. Actually, the parrallels are looking kind of eerie now...
I'm just saying, there's no reason to still be talking about Jones entirely in terms of a hype train now.

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