Should the UFC cut their ppv price in half for their half-ass cards?

I think they should , not that I would buy them (lol) , but check out this very revealing post from a dissapointed UFC fan I wanted to share with you all :

The sports bar where i usually watch the PPV not worth buying was about half empty tonight so i doubt the blame for the low numbers has much to do with Denver.   The bar manager told me they lost at least $1000 tonight just on what the UFC charges them for PPV.   I live in town of 50,000 and up until about 6 months ago there was at least  6 bars to go watch UFC PPV's now there is only one and it was only half full.   UFC raised their prices almost double so they no longer can afford to show them.    Maybe that is more calculated GREED by Dana white thinking that if less bars show it maybe more fans will drop $55-60.   Everyone I know has said at one time or another that they would probably buy most of them if they were priced at $25- $35.   So my thinking is they would sell alot more PPV's and make more overall money if they dropped the price not to mention they should consider the HORRIBLE economy.  I realize all Brits get UFC PPV's for free so they don't give a rats a'ss  Damn that really chaps my ass they get FREE UFC PPV.   But again i'm still pissed off that Dana/Brits fixed the Hamill/Bisping fight

how about not even calling it a PPV and just putting it on FX unless it's REAL shitty where it then should belong on FUEL TV

At this point in time I think the UFC should pay the hardcore fans money to watch their fixed bullshit that insults our intelligence.

They should do less ppv to manage the cards better, i would say 8 ppv plus 4 fox shows you have 1 major show on a month and this is enough for one promotion and give some others shows some spotlite, 14 ppv on a year is stupid and the evens are laking of talent. At the end of the day if you want to watch a event you can do your homework on the internet or take the event latter for free. It's not only on usa where the fans have to pay expensive ppv on Canada, Australia and Brazil the problem is the same.

delete

If all the idiots out there would stop paying for trash cards it would force zuffa to lower the price or up the quality of the cards. Zombies just keep ruining MMA more and more.

447 f***'n fighters under contract. About 10-20 are stars that can sell cards. PRIDE had 40 guys under contract (if that). LOL

PRIDE became hugely successful doing a fraction of the events with 4-8 times the tickets sold for each event as the UFC. Top to bottom each card had the top stars in PRIDE every freakin' event. Not one card failed to deliver most all of PRIDES stars and an incredibly exciting product. So much so that 5-10 years later the masses of MMA fans are still watching those fights over and over and over again.

The second a new breed UFC newbie sees a PRIDE fight vid they freak and want to find as many as they can get their hands on. It is immediately evident to even Zuffa Zombies that PRIDE is waaay more exciting, more technical, and a better product. Most use the 'PRIDE is dead' argument though to rationalize their blind allegiance to the UFC.

In business the buck stops here. Every president or owner of every company is 100% responsible for the end product, quality control and customer satisfaction... not the fighters... or the referee's... or the commissions... or the Olympics... or mass inklings... or ....................

Due to their maniacal greed and thirst to dominate MMA all over the world... Dana and the Fertitta's have f***'d them selves up their owns asses. Like a greedy King trying too fast and too soon to expand his empire, Zuffa is spreading out their attack forces way too thin on way too many fronts. That worked well for Hitler too when he broke the non-aggression pact attacking Russia on a second front in WWII.

Mark my words. Zuffa will fall. Again... ZUFFA will fall.

The UFC has a current $.5B dept which was OK for the revenues they had in 08/09/10. It's nowhere close to OK for where their revenues are now. This debt largely & much of their profit is being spent on global expansion. That is freakin' ridiculous. What company increase their expansions cost outside of their core profitable market when their domestic revenues are dropping 20%, 30% or $40. Haha... complete idiocy.

The same type of company that commit bankruptcy fraud.

Dagwood wrote:447 f***'n fighters under contract. About 10-20 are stars that can sell cards. PRIDE had 40 guys under contract (if that). LOL

PRIDE became hugely successful doing a fraction of the events with 4-8 times the tickets sold for each event as the UFC. Top to bottom each card had the top stars in PRIDE every freakin' event. Not one card failed to deliver most all of PRIDES stars and an incredibly exciting product. So much so that 5-10 years later the masses of MMA fans are still watching those fights over and over and over again.

The second a new breed UFC newbie sees a PRIDE fight vid they freak and want to find as many as they can get their hands on. It is immediately evident to even Zuffa Zombies that PRIDE is waaay more exciting, more technical, and a better product. Most use the 'PRIDE is dead' argument though to rationalize their blind allegiance to the UFC.

In business the buck stops here. Every president or owner of every company is 100% responsible for the end product, quality control and customer satisfaction... not the fighters... or the referee's... or the commissions... or the Olympics... or mass inklings... or ....................

Due to their maniacal greed and thirst to dominate MMA all over the world... Dana and the Fertitta's have f***'d them selves up their owns asses. Like a greedy King trying too fast and too soon to expand his empire, Zuffa is spreading out their attack forces way too thin on way too many fronts. That worked well for Hitler too when he broke the non-aggression pact attacking Russia on a second front in WWII.

Mark my words. Zuffa will fall. Again... ZUFFA will fall.

The UFC has a current $.5B dept which was OK for the revenues they had in 08/09/10. It's nowhere close to OK for where their revenues are now. This debt largely & much of their profit is being spent on global expansion. That is freakin' ridiculous. What company increase their expansions cost outside of their core profitable market when their domestic revenues are dropping 20%, 30% or $40. Haha... complete idiocy.

Pride had over 300 fighters at its peak... Of that 10-20 went on to become stars. Pride had consistently exciting cards because there were a ton of mismatches and freak show fights. Even more matches had a fighter who came in on like a week's notice to make the star look good. And Pride was funded by the Yakuza, much like Zuffa is "supposedly" funded by the mafia (because the Fertitta brothers had family involved in the mafia...). More technical is an incredibly retarded thing to say considering the vast range of quality in fighters from both orgs. The UFC has yearly PPV revenues of about 500 million, which makes their loan seem a lot less significant. The UFC is still popular in America, and the day Zuffa falls is the day MMA in America dies .

Pride was exiting because fighters weren't emasculated by their master at every opportunity, and weren't horrified of being cut after a loss.

Not to mention the rule set which has a lot more to do with excitement than any mismatches and freak
show fights. How exciting are mismatches and freak show fights in the ufc.

In Pride you are afraid of bodily harm.

In the ufc you are afraid of being fired (like it's some chain store job) and sent to the "minor leagues".

doubledx2c wrote:Pride had over 300 fighters at its peak... Of that 10-20 went on to become stars.

Look...

1. The UFC CURRENTLY has 400+ fighters under contract. That is 400+ this year 2012 ALL AT ONE TIME!

2. PRIDE had 300 TOTAL fighters under contract over 10 years. That averages out to 30 fighters year .

3. Since at least 2006 the UFC has had at least 200-400+ fighters under contract at any one time or for a given year. That averages out to about 300 fighters per year which is 10X the PRIDE average.

4. Taking into account the above averages & the fact the UFC has a higher employee turnover rate yearly than than McDonald's, Walmart & Nike's Cambodian shoe factory combined.... from 1993-2012 the has had waaaay north of a thousand fighters total under contract. More likely 2-3 times that.

5. Just in TUF fighters alone the UFC has had 224 fighters (14 seasons X 16 fighters) under some type of exclusive contract. That is another 224 to throw on the pile.

6. PRIDE retained a much higher percentage of their fighters each year than the UFC. This was a big part of their success. A big part.

doubledx2c wrote:Pride had consistently exciting cards because there were a ton of mismatches and freak show fights. Even more matches had a fighter who came in on like a week's notice to make the star look good.

So... Your saying that 40-70,000K people weren't mainly paying to see...

Fedor vs Nog
Fedor vs Cro Cop
Fedor vs Ogawa
Sakuraba vs Gracies X4
Sakuraba vs the world
Cro Cop vs Aleks
Wandy vs Sakuraba
Wandy vs Rampage
Shogun vs Arona
etc...

.... instead they were paying mainly to see Wagner Martins & Paulo da Silva???

If they were mostly circus freak show yearning fans... then why were 50K of them sitting silently only reacting for the most technical parts of the ground fighting, the strategic ebbs and flows between opponents and the more technical striking parts of each fight??? Hmmm?

doubledx2c wrote:More technical is an incredibly retarded thing to say considering the vast range of quality in fighters from both orgs.

So... you're saying that the average UFC card filled with American college-level wrestlers (non Olympic), TUF creations & say... Shane Carwin vs Brock Lesnar and Roy Nelson vs Frank Mir on the main card... has as many technical fights as the average PRIDE card??? Wow!!!

doubledx2c wrote:The UFC has yearly PPV revenues of about 500 million, which makes their loan seem a lot less significant. The UFC is still popular in America, and the day Zuffa falls is the day MMA in America dies .

I addressed this one in my OP. You need to start informing yourself better on MMA business news and stuff.

The UFC PPV revenues alone are off 40-50% from the height of Lesnar-mania. This is all published stuff. All the the global expansion dollars they have been spending is based on budgeting from where their business was then.

Their home US market has shrunk substantially from it's peak and they are bleeding new fans and ones from the TUF-Lesnar era big time. It's going to costs them more and more to bring in each new fan just to replace any losses. It's going to be hard to do that with big names main cards like Faber vs. Barao or Henderson vs. Edgar II or many of the lack luster quality events this last year or so. They are also starting to have trouble selling seats in some of the US cities they're going into.

The FOX deal has ratings requirements that have to be met in order for the deal to stay afloat. Just like with any TV show, the network can pull the plug and cancel at any time for any reason. 7 years on the air for the UFC is no guarantee. TV analysts have to date said the ratings for the UFC on FOX are short of expectations and for financial viability for FOX based on their past programming in UFC spots. One thing is for sure... there is no real growth happening. The wait and see period for FOX may be getting shorter unless there is a substantial increase.

I can keep going but it would be better for you to start following the business side of the UFC in the business & sports media.

bolsheet wrote:They should do less ppv to manage the cards better, i would say 8 ppv plus 4 fox shows you have 1 major show on a month and this is enough for one promotion and give some others shows some spotlite, 14 ppv on a year is stupid and the evens are laking of talent. At the end of the day if you want to watch a event you can do your homework on the internet or take the event latter for free. It's not only on usa where the fans have to pay expensive ppv on Canada, Australia and Brazil the problem is the same.

Far less shows. The UFC cant support the shows they are doing now, they dont have good fighters for the majority of their events, a few has shitty but over hyped fighters and maybe one show has an actual good fight with two good fighters. Those good fights are few and far between.

At the end of the day there are many events overseas and in America with better fights and better fighters, even though the event and fighters doesnt have the zuffa hype machine behind them.

Dagwood wrote:447 f***'n fighters under contract. About 10-20 are stars that can sell cards. PRIDE had 40 guys under contract (if that). LOL

PRIDE became hugely successful doing a fraction of the events with 4-8 times the tickets sold for each event as the UFC. Top to bottom each card had the top stars in PRIDE every freakin' event. Not one card failed to deliver most all of PRIDES stars and an incredibly exciting product. So much so that 5-10 years later the masses of MMA fans are still watching those fights over and over and over again.

The second a new breed UFC newbie sees a PRIDE fight vid they freak and want to find as many as they can get their hands on. It is immediately evident to even Zuffa Zombies that PRIDE is waaay more exciting, more technical, and a better product. Most use the 'PRIDE is dead' argument though to rationalize their blind allegiance to the UFC.

In business the buck stops here. Every president or owner of every company is 100% responsible for the end product, quality control and customer satisfaction... not the fighters... or the referee's... or the commissions... or the Olympics... or mass inklings... or ....................

Due to their maniacal greed and thirst to dominate MMA all over the world... Dana and the Fertitta's have f***'d them selves up their owns asses. Like a greedy King trying too fast and too soon to expand his empire, Zuffa is spreading out their attack forces way too thin on way too many fronts. That worked well for Hitler too when he broke the non-aggression pact attacking Russia on a second front in WWII.

Mark my words. Zuffa will fall. Again... ZUFFA will fall.

The UFC has a current $.5B dept which was OK for the revenues they had in 08/09/10. It's nowhere close to OK for where their revenues are now. This debt largely & much of their profit is being spent on global expansion. That is freakin' ridiculous. What company increase their expansions cost outside of their core profitable market when their domestic revenues are dropping 20%, 30% or $40. Haha... complete idiocy.

+1

doubledx2c wrote:

Pride had over 300 fighters at its peak... Of that 10-20 went on to become stars. Pride had consistently exciting cards because there were a ton of mismatches and freak show fights. Even more matches had a fighter who came in on like a week's notice to make the star look good. And Pride was funded by the Yakuza, much like Zuffa is "supposedly" funded by the mafia (because the Fertitta brothers had family involved in the mafia...). More technical is an incredibly retarded thing to say considering the vast range of quality in fighters from both orgs. The UFC has yearly PPV revenues of about 500 million, which makes their loan seem a lot less significant. The UFC is still popular in America, and the day Zuffa falls is the day MMA in America dies .

WHAT, are you crazy?

Pride had many many more top fighters than that, not just local fighters like you see in the UFC but top fighters from all around the globe, from Eastern Europe, Western Europe, Asia, America, South America.

Pride had exciting fights because they had exciting fights. What you might call mis matches were against champion fighters or a fighter with a long unbeaten record, or a fighter that decides to challenge himself and go up against someone far bigger. Its not like in the UFC where you have fighters too scared of fighting each other and just end up dry humping each other. In Pride you had champion kickboxers/olympians/sambo champs being given a shot. In the UFC you have fake wrestlers and footballers or street brawlers all with substandard combat skills and experience.

And Pride was funded by the Yakuza, much like Zuffa is "supposedly" funded by the mafia. NOT SUPPOSEDLY, ITS A FACT! ITS OWNERS ARE MAFIA WHO HAS A HISTORY OF DODGY AND SHADY DEALINGS. GOOD THING FOR THEM THAT AMERICAN POLITICIANS LOVE THEIR GREENS.

Doublex2c how can you say pride fights were not more technical than UFC fights? Just the fact that the ruleset in the UFC is limited to less tools debunks your claim. When you add knees to grounded opponent , soccer kicks and stomps that right away adds a couple of new dimensions of technique you need to learn to be able to use. Failure.

Also the ring size allowed for more frequent exchanges which obviously means more fighting took place per bout than your average UFC fight which has tons of running , back peddling , wall stalling , etc.

So pride fights just by logistics had more technics thrown per fight making it indeed more technical than the UFC.

Where did we see a gogoplata applied for the first time ?

Where did we see a hammerlock applied for the first time ?

Where did we see more head kick Ko's ?

I could go on and on.

poor doubledx2x just got.....

Longtime Fan wrote:Doublex2c how can you say pride fights were not more technical than UFC fights? Just the fact that the ruleset in the UFC is limited to less tools debunks your claim. When you add knees to grounded opponent , soccer kicks and stomps that right away adds a couple of new dimensions of technique you need to learn to be able to use. Failure.

The only tools Pride fighters had available to them that current UFC fighters don't are attacks to a grounded opponent. Removing them may make the fight less exciting, but imagine how the American media would freak out if they were present.

Pride had many many more top fighters than that, not just local fighters like you see in the UFC but top fighters from all around the globe, from Eastern Europe, Western Europe, Asia, America, South America.

Pride had exciting fights because they had exciting fights. What you might call mis matches were against champion fighters or a fighter with a long unbeaten record, or a fighter that decides to challenge himself and go up against someone far bigger. Its not like in the UFC where you have fighters too scared of fighting each other and just end up dry humping each other. In Pride you had champion kickboxers/olympians/sambo champs being given a shot. In the UFC you have fake wrestlers and footballers or street brawlers all with substandard combat skills and experience.

I said stars, not top fighters. Jon Fitch is a top fighter, doesn't make him a star. Fake wrestlers like who? Brock Lesnar? And who else? Only Olympians that fought in Pride were Yoshida, Gardner (for one fight...) and Hendo. There's plenty of high level BJJ practitioners to go around in the UFC, and many credentialed wrestlers.

Also the ring size allowed for more frequent exchanges which obviously means more fighting took place per bout than your average UFC fight which has tons of running , back peddling , wall stalling , etc.

So pride fights just by logistics had more technics thrown per fight making it indeed more technical than the UFC.

Where did we see a gogoplata applied for the first time ?

Where did we see a hammerlock applied for the first time ?

Where did we see more head kick Ko's ?

I could go on and on.

The first gogoplata in MMA was applied in ZST, not pride. First hammerlock I remember seeing was performed by Aoki in DREAM. More head kick KOs? Are you just pulling that out of your ass?

Yes, but the gogoplata happened in pride before the ufc , and my main point is fights in the UFC are less technical because of the octagon space and rule set.

And who cares about public perception. Are you an MMA purist? If so then you would want to fight to emulate a real fight as much as possible. Pride got closer in that department than the UFC even with their freak show matches. In real life you can't select your opponent to be equal height and weight as you.

Longtime Fan wrote:Yes, but the gogoplata happened in pride before the ufc , and my main point is fights in the UFC are less technical because of the octagon space and rule set.

And who cares about public perception. Are you an MMA purist? If so then you would want to fight to emulate a real fight as much as possible. Pride got closer in that department than the UFC even with their freak show matches. In real life you can't select your opponent to be equal height and weight as you.

I agree that the octagon is too big. If you're talking about emulating a real fight, then Pride's lack of elbows is a glaring absence.

I would have liked elbows in Pride under certain conditions.

I don't think emulating a street fight is something to aspire to. Not exactly technique ridden, are they.

Excitement and entertainment thought is something to aspire to, and zuffa products mostly don't deliver.

Not necessarily a street fight , but if you are the UFC and your slogan is "as real as it gets" then prove that shit.

I find this very interesting and it really highlights how the sport may have lost some popularity. UFC events that aired on SPIKE cable channel, mostly on tape delay, averaged a lot more viewers than the current UFC on FOX live events, which air on a channel everyone gets do.

Here's the viewing ratings for the last 2 UFC on FOX events that aired on network television, a channel everyone gets...

UFC on FOX 3 - Diaz vs Miller - 2.2 million viewers
UFC on FOX 4 - Shogun vs Vera - 2.4 million viewers

Here's a few viewing ratings for UFC on SPIKE events that aired on a cable channel needed a cable monthly cable subscription to view...

UFC 70 Cro Cop vs Gonzaga (April 21st 2007) - 3.5 million viewers on tape delay
UFC 75 Hendo vs Rampage (September 8th 2007) - 4.7 million viewers on tape delay
UFC 89 Bisping vs Leben (October 18th 2008) - 2.6 million viewers on tape delay

The event that UFC put on to counter program Affliction's inaugural event with Silva vs. Irvin did a lot bigger number at 4.0 million viewers than UFC on FOX's last 2 events on network television have done. And that wasn't even a numbered event and just something thrown together at the last minute with the sole intention of burying a would be competitor.

EliteXC, a silly organization that somehow got on CBS even did bigger numbers for an event that didn't even feature Kimbo and instead featured Lawler vs Scott Smith as it's main event. It did 2.6 million viewers and was called a "ratings disaster."

Even the Strikeforce event that featured Fedor vs Rogers did killer numbers on CBS at 5.2 million viewers.

I don't want to call MMA a fad, but I think it's definitely cooled off. Specifically the UFC. It's no longer this hip new thing that everyone needs to tune into. It seems to have pretty much settled into the general public's consciousness and either you watch it or you don't. There doesn't seem to be some super-secret hidden demographic of 18-30 year olds who haven't heard about the UFC yet.

Also, maybe it's just over-saturation. Too many events and not enough great cards to really get fans attention since there will just be another UFC event right around the corner.

UFC would do well to put one of their biggest fights on FOX to get some more viewers. Maybe a Silva fight or GSP. It would be worth it for UFC to let the PPV money go in order to grow their brand and relationship with network TV. PPV buys are down big time as well, so I don't think that model is going to last very long. Might as well look towards the future and their place in it on network TV.

Current UFC Quality PPVs with a single title fight should be on FOX.

UFC PPVs w Top Contenders (similar to FOX cards today) should be on FX.

UFC FX type cards should be on FUEL.

The number of shows each year should be reduced. Their roster should be reduced and they should only have 5 or 6 divisions (FW - HW or LW - HW) rather than 8. The lighter the weight class the lesser the finishes as well which is not a good thing for casual viewers.

Prelims should be taken off air to prevent over saturation as well. They should put them back on UFC.com for a small fee.

There should only be 3 or 4 full price PPVs each year with multiple title fights and top contender fights on each PPV. Super stacked cards for New Years and in July with one or two other PPVs would be better IMO.

This is an overall increase in product quality and cost reduction for the customer. The reduction in shows and prelims will help with the over saturation as well.

They should convert SF into PRIDE held in Japan 8 times per year under PRIDE rules in a ring with 4 weight divisions (LW, MW, LHW, and HW) like the old PRIDE.

The NYE event each year or every two years should be a Super Bowl of MMA event for a Unified World MMA title in each weight class between UFC and PRIDE champions who take the belts back with them to their org. The PRIDE events should be held in Japan and across Asia. The Super Bowl events should alternate, one year in the U.S. in the Octagon under Unified Rules and the next year in Japan in the PRIDE ring under PRIDE Rules.

CDF47 wrote:
There should only be 3 or 4 full price PPVs each year with multiple title fights and top contender fights on each PPV. Super stacked cards for New Years and in July with one or two other PPVs would be better IMO.

Unlike pride, the ufc champions don't want to be very active if they do 2 fights on a year is much, since they already are making money not fighting like anderson and need to fight a top contender back to back (you don't carry a belt in the cage to fight Zuluzinho or Yuji Nagata) and losing the belt will hurt their sponsors deals and tv appearances. So you can't waste all yours bullets on one day when for the american audience you usually only promote the main event and the co-main event at most. (GSP-Koscheck 2 alone had 800k usa ppv buys)