UFC on FOX 3: Miller vs. Diaz Completely Bombs in the Ratings

Johan Lofgren wrote:You need to look at mma from an asian or european perspective. Europe and Asia don´t need the UFC they just need the fighters who are under contract with Zuffa.

I`d wager they don`t really need them at all. M-1 proved they could sell out a 27 000 IIRC seat arena with Fedor vs Monson as the headliner. Monson hasn`t been relevant for years, but Fedor has such a strong following in Russia it didn`t matter. They would have done the same numbers if they had Fedor vs JDS, I think it has been proven that top 10 and P4P fighters aren`t necessarily good draws. In mma rankings don`t mean anything, they are just marketing tools and European and Asian fans, most of whom are just getting into the sport don`t really care for who Americans rank in their (extremely subjective) top 10. In KSW Pudz vs Cain would do just as well (maybe even less) than Pudz vs JT. Most fans care more about their heroes and hometown name fighters and that is why a PPV headlined by Tito Ortiz did better in the states than one headlined by Edgar. MMA is still about big names just like in boxing, and that`s why Baldies rhetoric of putting the UFC over the fighters is coming back to bite him in the ass.

M-1, KSW, One-FC, and all the other players need to focus on building up mma in their home markets and building up stars the fans can like and relate to. Maybe they should sign a few up and comers and a few veterans and modest names to help build up their homegrown talent but nothing excessive like signing A.Silva who will demand an arm and a leg and act like douche. I love SF but IMO they pushed to hard too quickly singing all the biggest names they could find and it ended up hurting them. Slow expansion, and building up MMA overseas is the key imo.

Honestly, if ZUFFA went belly up I would be more worried about the damage it would do to the thousands of fight camps and MMA clothing, grappling wear, and all the other businesses dependent on a strong American promotion than I`m worried about what would happen to overseas orgs. The smaller American orgs will keep on kicking but a loss of interest in mma in North America would kill off more than a few of them IMO.

Misowaman wrote:Nobody cares about MMA anymore.

MMA is growing in Europe. We don´t care if the american fans are losing interest in the sport.

Misowaman wrote:

Johan Lofgren wrote:UFC going out of business wouldn´t be the end of mma.

Yeah, it probably would. UFC is the only MMA that exists as far as the general public is concerned. If the casual fan isn't interested, then an organizationa nd sport can't survive. If the only people watching are hardcore fans, then the organization and sport will die, as we're seeing.

if the UFC goes down, you really think another MMA promotion will come up and take it's place? Absolutely no chance.

I don´t want another promotion to take UFCs place. I want the fighters to be scattered all over the world in different promotions. Zuffa monopoly is the worst possible scenario for mma, I don´t even like their product that much. The fighters are great but not the promotion.

The biggest problem with discussing mma in english online is that most people look at the sport from an american perspective. Here in Europe many prefer the ring and the classy way of promoting the sport. We don´t want Dana and his mafia buddies to rule mma with their cagefighting and reality show.

it's growing in Europe because two years ago there was nothing. Growing from nothing isn't something to boast about.

If the UFC goes down, MMA will go down with it. Sure, there will be MMA events, but it will be bush league nobodies fighting in high school gyms.

Zuffa does not have a monopoly. You can't talk about a monopoly, then hype other organizations. Just because there's no direct competition doesn't mean that it's a monopoly.

If the mainstream public isn't watching UFC, you really think that they're going to go watch KSW? You're ambitious, i'll give you that, but think realistically; nobody cares about MMA anymore.

If no body cares about mma no more as you say, then at least I can say I saw the golden age 2000-2007. i'll just go b ack to kickboxing like I was before mma, and to be honest its more exciting anyway then the mma we get these days.

Johan Lofgren wrote:

Misowaman wrote:

Johan Lofgren wrote:UFC going out of business wouldn´t be the end of mma.

Yeah, it probably would. UFC is the only MMA that exists as far as the general public is concerned. If the casual fan isn't interested, then an organizationa nd sport can't survive. If the only people watching are hardcore fans, then the organization and sport will die, as we're seeing.

if the UFC goes down, you really think another MMA promotion will come up and take it's place? Absolutely no chance.

I don´t want another promotion to take UFCs place. I want the fighters to be scattered all over the world in different promotions. Zuffa monopoly is the worst possible scenario for mma, I don´t even like their product that much. The fighters are great but not the promotion.

The biggest problem with discussing mma in english online is that most people look at the sport from an american perspective. Here in Europe many prefer the ring and the classy way of promoting the sport. We don´t want Dana and his mafia buddies to rule mma with their cagefighting and reality show.

I don`t know man, UFC in Sweden did pretty well. I`m not trying to question you as you live there lol but can you really speak for everyone in a continent with almost a billion people (if we also include Russia that is) ? It`s not like Europe is an mma hotbed right now, maybe one day but I find it unlikely that Europeans in large really prefer one org over the other right now. Either way it`s all the same to you if the UFC dies but us poor schmucks in North America have more of a vested interest in the UFC surviving. It`s not the best org but there will be consequences for NA mma if the UFC goes down. We`ll see how it all plays out if it does go down.

since when does the premier company in an industry failing not leave the industry in a poor state? The only way the UFC goes out and MMA sits pretty is by hostile take over. Someone's got to out sign and out promote the UFC. Otherwise the sport will survive, but Pride's 100% right. The Golden Age is behind us.

Also, I'd like to point out UFC fans aren't necessarily fighters' fans. What fighters they do like is transitive to UFC belts not skill sets displayed. Watch as Mark Hunt gains popularity these people that'd have him outside the top 50 hws just a few years ago. Soon he'll be a top 10 but they'll claim the UFC was the push he needed. It's relative to that Pat Barry vid. Where he's basically saying there are two ways to say something. We as Hunto long time support will claim we saw something in him they didn't, and they'll claim they were right the whole time it's just that Hunt's improved a lot. Either way Hunt's popularity is shooting because he's UFC now not because he's an excellent fighter.

^

Yeah that kind of thing prove our point. MMA nowadays is not about competition or fighters, but about the brand. Unfortunately because of that if the UFC goes down probably the entire MMA goes down in some way too, then the process of becoming a big sport starts all over again.

Because of their type of business probably UFC will be like Myspace or 100 other things that were in style. People will eventually lose interest because it's not cool anymore and move on to the next thing.

Wolfman wrote:^

Yeah that kind of thing prove our point. MMA nowadays is not about competition or fighters, but about the brand. Unfortunately because of that if the UFC goes down probably the entire MMA goes down in some way too, then the process of becoming a big sport starts all over again.

Because of their type of business probably UFC will be like Myspace or 100 other things that were in style. People will eventually lose interest because it's not cool anymore and move on to the next thing.

I doubt it will fall out of favour that fast. The UFC survived the mma dark ages (barely) they are already losing the casual fans Brock and GSP were pulling in but the numbers were somehwat consitent in 2011 and 2012 so their core audience are probably fairly committed. I`ve been talking about something sudden and chaotic breaking up the UFC but if there is a gradual loss of interest (which seems to be what is happening right now) that should give ZUFFA enough to time to restructure themsleves as a lower level org. I don`t think the UFC will die barring something major happening but it will never become mainstream or bigger than soccer lmao liken Baldie claims. If Bellator can thrive as a mid level org the UFC with its name recognition can. However, if Baldie remains intent on the UFC becomming mainstream he better make some fucking changes because it certainly isn`t happening anytime soon. If they keep lumbering on and growing the way they have been up till now without becoming a mainstream sport i don`t see how they can sustain themselves.

^

Sure i did not mean it would just go out like that, but people would start losing interest and with time it would be going down. Specially because there's too much hype and they usually don't deliver. That will start making the casuals bored of it, like it is already happening.

Since the Fertitta's don't need the UFC to live since they're already rich they'll probably don't let it disappear, unless they sell it. But as you said, it might just be around as a recognizable name but nothing special compared to others.

Wolfman what are the trends in Brazil with this Globo thing?

Do you see it as sustainable among people there or they only watch because of the newness factor & it being free?

UFC is becoming stale to the casual fan in North America, a chunk of WWE cross overs left after Brock retired, and there isn't that newness factor anymore.

On twitter trends Brazil was one of the 3 or 4 countries where UFC was visible for a bit.

Mayweather-Cotto was trending all over the world including not so big Boxing markets like China & India.

It's kind of weird how hell bent ZUFFA has been on taking over mma' hyping up the ufc as the be all and end all, and just generally acting like spoiled idiots when it comes to other orgs, and yet they just assume that fans will slop up their medicore cards, that the mainstrem audience is somehow privelged to watch their product. There is so much hype behind the UFC and they have so many amazing talents on their roster but they never capitalize, they never deliver the card they should be. Their atittude is still nickle and diming fans to buy PPV after PPV yet they keep watering down the cards. There is no excuse for not putting on amazing PPV cards with their top talent and using their lower tier fighters on free shows (aside from the fox cards that is). ZUFFA think they can exploit the fanbase but people are wising up. They need to make some changes soon or else their mma imperialism is going to blow up in their face.

Fisticuffa wrote:Wolfman what are the trends in Brazil with this Globo thing?

Do you see it as sustainable among people there or they only watch because of the newness factor & it being free?

UFC is becoming stale to the casual fan in North America, a chunk of WWE cross overs left after Brock retired, and there isn't that newness factor anymore.

On twitter trends Brazil was one of the 3 or 4 countries where UFC was visible for a bit.

Mayweather-Cotto was trending all over the world including not so big Boxing markets like China & India.

UFC before being on Globo was in a channel called RedeTV, and it was doing well for them, since usually them, being a smaller channel gained some views and even challenged Globo's numbers on saturday nights, where the programming is usually shit. People inside Globo even talked a lot of trash about MMA. The guy who's the commentator for UFC here today, months before said it was just violence and it was not a sport. So, after they saw that it had market, Globo basically bought it just so nobody could have it, simple as that, and if it worked all the money would be theirs. They hyped the brazilians fighters a lot after they held the rights to broadcast UFC, there was a campaign to make Anderson Silva famous and everything. Which kinda worked, but not as much as expected, since he did not became a hero like Acelino Freitas, Éder Jofre or even Adilson Maguila in the past.

Globo so far only broadcasted JDS vs Cain fight, yes, just the fight not the whole card, and Belfort vs Johnson along with Aldo vs Mendes fights (full card and other events only on Premiere Combate, a PPV channel owned by Globo on cable TV). Both did well, since it's something new on free TV here yet and Globo's very influencial. Now we have TUF on TV on sunday nights which is doing well, it made their rating go up 15% at the time. IMO Globo only brought TUF because of this country's love for damn reality shows. They probably thought it would help bring fans to the sport (by sport read "our ratings when we show this damn thing we bought").

Basically it is doing well now, and lots of casuals appeared out of nowhere and are calling the sport "UFC", just like it happens in america. MMA is well received here. Even Bellator pulled 3 million views. Unfortunately since Globo share the same views on business as Zuffa, the future might be just like it is in america or worse.

My answer to your second question would be yes, i think it did well because of being something new, and for now people might like it, but the media hyped boxing a lot here too and now it disappeared. So I'm not sure about it's future here TBH, sorry.

All i know is there's NO CHANCE UFC is close on Soccer here as Belfort and even Dana were trying to make it look like.

Hope it answered what you wanted to know. Sorry if something's wrong or hard to comprehend too, i'm not used yet to write such long posts in english.

The UFC is going down in popularity because the brand is promoted, it's promoted as the UFC, instead of putting the fighters in the spotlight, they're highlighting the UFC brand. If you highlight a specific brand, eventually, people will get sick of it, whereas if you promote the fighters, people get interested in those fighters, and if the cycle of promoting the fighters to bring people in, then continuing to promote new fighters continues, then you have a successful company.

Professional wrestling promotes the wrestlers, therefore, Monday Night Raw still pulls in 3 million people every single week even though the program is usually average at best. Boxing promotes exclusively the fighters, and guys like Manny Pacquiao and Floyd Mayweather pull in over a million ppv buys every time they fight, because people don't give a shit about what label it's being held under, they pay to see the fighters. But with MMA, almost ALL mma, the brand is promoted, because it's a young sport with a shitload of different organizations, promoting the fighters doesn't work. UFC can promote the fighters, but they don't so the fans tune in for the UFC product, and eventually they get tired of tuning in for the UFC product rather than a fighter/fighters, so they just stop watching. UFC isn't becoming less viewed because 'people are sick of boring fights', because in reality, most of the fights are entertaining, people aren't watching the UFC because that's all they're getting; the UFC.

and if the UFC goes down, there isn't going to be another prominent MMA organization in the world. MMA isn't getting any bigger, it's a niche sport, it's always been a niche sport, and it will always be a niche sport.

UFC is overrated. They only got this big by destroying their competition. There will be a new golden era, you guys just need to stay positive.

Johan Lofgren wrote:UFC is overrated. They only got this big by destroying their competition. There will be a new golden era, you guys just need to stay positive.

Honestly, there is room for the UFC in global mma, altough ideally a Dana free ufc lol It seems clear that ZUFFA isn't really a threat to global mma anymore. They have peaked with their current model and they seem unwilling to alter their product, or rather, their "vision" of what they think mma should be. UFC isn't going to expand into Poland or Russia anytime soon, their forays into Britain have been less than stellar, it's hard to guage the mma in the rest of Europe but Brazil seems to be the only place with a major interest in the UFC. Bellator is stable and they seem to have a realisitc idea of how much they can expand. I think ZUFFA's days of buying out their competitors are largely done, especially since most of the other mma orgs don't seem to be follwoing the Strikeforce model of directly competing with the UFC. M-1, KSW, One-fc, SFL, and even BAMMA to a lesser extent are all focussed on building up their home markets, and these are areas where mma has a lot of potential for growth. UFC as the dominant org in america with Bellator being a solid option for prospects and talent that don't want to sign their life away makes sense, with other orgs creating and developing their own brands in their home territories. If ZUFFA was willing to stop being a bitch and work with the other orgs all the better, but I honestly think that the UFC isn't really a threat to most other orgs, maybe SFL if they seriously expand into India but who knows. ZUFFA doesn't seem all tht interested in European fighters, only when they are putting on shows in that country, and they have a hard enough time expanind into untested markets already (like in Germany).

and to think Dana told me it was as big as American handegg, the lies Dana the lies!!!!!!!!!!

Frank Hill wrote:

Johan Lofgren wrote:UFC is overrated. They only got this big by destroying their competition. There will be a new golden era, you guys just need to stay positive.

Honestly, there is room for the UFC in global mma, altough ideally a Dana free ufc lol It seems clear that ZUFFA isn't really a threat to global mma anymore. They have peaked with their current model and they seem unwilling to alter their product, or rather, their "vision" of what they think mma should be. UFC isn't going to expand into Poland or Russia anytime soon, their forays into Britain have been less than stellar, it's hard to guage the mma in the rest of Europe but Brazil seems to be the only place with a major interest in the UFC. Bellator is stable and they seem to have a realisitc idea of how much they can expand. I think ZUFFA's days of buying out their competitors are largely done, especially since most of the other mma orgs don't seem to be follwoing the Strikeforce model of directly competing with the UFC. M-1, KSW, One-fc, SFL, and even BAMMA to a lesser extent are all focussed on building up their home markets, and these are areas where mma has a lot of potential for growth. UFC as the dominant org in america with Bellator being a solid option for prospects and talent that don't want to sign their life away makes sense, with other orgs creating and developing their own brands in their home territories. If ZUFFA was willing to stop being a bitch and work with the other orgs all the better, but I honestly think that the UFC isn't really a threat to most other orgs, maybe SFL if they seriously expand into India but who knows. ZUFFA doesn't seem all tht interested in European fighters, only when they are putting on shows in that country, and they have a hard enough time expanind into untested markets already (like in Germany).

UFC is welcome to stay around as long as they don´t destroy the competition and use dirty tactics. They also need to share the top fighters with other promotions. Non exclusive contracts would be best for everyone.

Johan Lofgren wrote:UFC is overrated. They only got this big by destroying their competition. There will be a new golden era, you guys just need to stay positive.

A business got bigger because they took out competition? UNHEARD OF!!!

No, there's won't be 'a new golden era', because UFC is going down the toilet, and MMA is going with it. Nobody wants to watch two men choke each other on the ground anymore.

Misowaman wrote:

Johan Lofgren wrote:UFC is overrated. They only got this big by destroying their competition. There will be a new golden era, you guys just need to stay positive.

A business got bigger because they took out competition? UNHEARD OF!!!

No, there's won't be 'a new golden era', because UFC is going down the toilet, and MMA is going with it. Nobody wants to watch two men choke each other on the ground anymore.

Have you ever watched M-1? It´s fantastic. If they co-promote with KSW and sign some of the top guys from UFC the new golden era is here.

Maybe not for you but for me.

You clearly define 'golden era' differently than I do.

The 'golden era' is legitimately the peak, the best something has ever been, you most certainly have a skewed vision if you think that KSW and M-1 co-promoting is indicative of any golden era.

Misowaman wrote:You clearly define 'golden era' differently than I do.

The 'golden era' is legitimately the peak, the best something has ever been, you most certainly have a skewed vision if you think that KSW and M-1 co-promoting is indicative of any golden era.

Forrest we know you love Zuffa above all else but you have to respect other peoples opinions. KSW has pride level production (almost) and M-1 has some very interesting fighters. Like I said if they co-promote and bring in some of the top guys from the UFC mma will enter a new golden era IMO.

just to be clear; the branding of "Zuffa above all else" is given because co-promotion between two european organizations isn't what I consider 'the golden era' of anything?

So I have to respect your opinion, but my opinion gets me a label of Zuffa zombie? I'm getting mixed signals. I could very easily call you a delusional child, but i'm not going to, because I respect your right to have an opinion, I just think that your opinion is more like a fantasy.

Misowaman wrote:just to be clear; the branding of "Zuffa above all else" is given because co-promotion between two european organizations isn't what I consider 'the golden era' of anything?

So I have to respect your opinion, but my opinion gets me a label of Zuffa zombie? I'm getting mixed signals. I could very easily call you a delusional child, but i'm not going to, because I respect your right to have an opinion, I just think that your opinion is more like a fantasy.

Stay classy, this isn´t K1LP or TT. Stop attacking people and discuss like an adult.

attacking people? I just said I respect your right to have an opinion, but saying what i think of your opinion is 'attacking' you?

maybe i'm not the one that has to act like an adult in this situation.