The decline of the UFC , the awakening of the fans and the innevitable mma reform

Amongst the hot topics of the day all over the mma landscape is the ufc's ratings drop and decline in popularity. If mma forums are to be used as a gauge , they show the sharp lows that the heartbeat monitor of the UFC has sustained. More and more do we see Dana White on the defensive , tending to questions he never thought he would be getting asked just two years ago. It almost seems like we are experiencing a paradigm shift or an awakening of some of these casual turned passionate fans. Ive read people mis-clasify the fan types so I will basically break down and simplify it. The scale of fan rank goes like this (from least to most knowledgable) :

Casual fan (or noob . One that only watches UFC )

Passionate fan (middle of road for the most part but the majority lean towards UFC despite its cheapening of the sport of mma)

Hardcore fan (this fan loves all Mma but understands that Mma was taken over , monopolized , raped and changed as a sport and therefor are against zuffa for their mistreatment of the sport)

Just one year ago you had 2/3's of the total Mma fandom community fervently supporting the UFC (the casuals and the passionate fans) . Only the hardcore fans were against zuffa from the start , but being the minority , they were often ostracized and shunned for their beliefs so they for the most part stayed in the shadows for awhile. Some left their favorite forums which became zuffa centric and started whole communities based on real Mma worldwide. They essentially were outcasted but then occurred the phenomenon. Passionate fans started making the transition and evolving (awakening) finally into open minded hardcore fans. Now the tides have turned and it seems like its 50-50% (casual vs passionate/hardcore fans) as it stands.

Dana White is the madman that can't control himself anymore and is finding out that his behavior is starting to create a backlash. Just his attitude alone is alienating passionate fans. Only the casuals still buy his spiel. His "my way or the highway" mentality has upset even what were just two years ago some of the most stubborn and loyal zuffa defenders. In addition it has become apparent that under the zuffa reign , Mma has been cheapened and lost its flare that it once had during the golden era of Mma (2001-2007; the pride era). The changing of the rules , the watering down of the cards , the blatant fight rigging , the free passes for title shots reserved by Dana for his buddy American marketable fighters , the horrible officiating , the bombardment of uninspired promotional brand hype , the over saturation of ppv overpriced cards , the nonsensical matchmaking and much more have contributed to the UFCs popularity downspike.

The main thing to point out here is that the UFC couldn't care less about finding out who the best Mma artists of all time are , they are mainly concerned with building up their brand. And it's come back to bite them in the ass like a TRT injection. Sooner or later even the dumbest fans grow older , mature and become wiser and come to understand that the UFC is not the best iteration and model of Mma that we've had so far , just the one to monopoloze and set a weaker standard. Fans also are realizing that dana isnt any more credible than a politician who lies to get elected. But even presidential terms come to an end eventually.

- LTF GMMA

It seems like fans start to realize that Ultimate FC is a promotion, not a sport. I wish fans talked more about the rising promotions and their fighters because it´s the best way to defeat Dana and his buddies. Talking smack about the fighters on the Zuffa roster is unnecessary because these fighters will soon sign with ONE, Bellator, M-1, World Series, KSW etc.

One big problem is the comparison between Ultimate FC and NFL. You can´t compare combat sports and team sports but if you want to do it football (soccer) is the best comparison. There are huge leagues all over the world and no one wants Premier League, for an example, to buy MLS, Serie A, La Liga, Bundesliga etc and kill them just to become #1.

If people want the best mma fighters to meet for world titles Ultimate FC is the wrong way to do it. An international mma organization and co-promotion is the way to do it.

I agree JL.

Johan Lofgren wrote:It seems like fans start to realize that Ultimate FC is a promotion, not a sport. I wish fans talked more about the rising promotions and their fighters because it´s the best way to defeat Dana and his buddies. Talking smack about the fighters on the Zuffa roster is unnecessary because these fighters will soon sign with ONE, Bellator, M-1, World Series, KSW etc.

One big problem is the comparison between Ultimate FC and NFL. You can´t compare combat sports and team sports but if you want to do it football (soccer) is the best comparison. There are huge leagues all over the world and no one wants Premier League, for an example, to buy MLS, Serie A, La Liga, Bundesliga etc and kill them just to become #1.

If people want the best mma fighters to meet for world titles Ultimate FC is the wrong way to do it. An international mma organization and co-promotion is the way to do it.

Very well put. Excellent insight with respect to the football comparison.

Johan Lofgren wrote:It seems like fans start to realize that Ultimate FC is a promotion, not a sport. I wish fans talked more about the rising promotions and their fighters because it´s the best way to defeat Dana and his buddies. Talking smack about the fighters on the Zuffa roster is unnecessary because these fighters will soon sign with ONE, Bellator, M-1, World Series, KSW etc.

One big problem is the comparison between Ultimate FC and NFL. You can´t compare combat sports and team sports but if you want to do it football (soccer) is the best comparison. There are huge leagues all over the world and no one wants Premier League, for an example, to buy MLS, Serie A, La Liga, Bundesliga etc and kill them just to become #1.

If people want the best mma fighters to meet for world titles Ultimate FC is the wrong way to do it. An international mma organization and co-promotion is the way to do it.

I agree that fans should create awareness about other fun promotions by spreading word of mouth but first they have to talk with their pockets and immediately boycott the UFC ppvs and products in general. That would force them to give us what we want.

The only way to have Zuffa change their shitty watered down card strategy is if the fans simply stop buying PPVs, stop buying their shitty video games, their merchandise and don't watch their shitty TUF shows

Zuffa's advertisers and sponsors will move on to better things unless the ratings pick up again with better cards

Fox will dump Zuffa like a hot turd

Longtime Fan wrote:
The main thing to point out here is that the UFC couldn't care less about finding out who the best Mma artists of all time are , they are mainly concerned with building up their brand. And it's come back to bite them in the ass like a TRT injection. Sooner or later even the dumbest fans grow older , mature and become wiser and come to understand that the UFC is not the best iteration and model of Mma that we've had so far , just the one to monopoloze and set a weaker standard. Fans also are realizing that dana isnt any more credible than a politician who lies to get elected. But even presidential terms come to an end eventually.

Well said

Lofgren wrote:

Longtime Fan wrote:
The main thing to point out here is that the UFC couldn't care less about finding out who the best Mma artists of all time are , they are mainly concerned with building up their brand. And it's come back to bite them in the ass like a TRT injection. Sooner or later even the dumbest fans grow older , mature and become wiser and come to understand that the UFC is not the best iteration and model of Mma that we've had so far , just the one to monopoloze and set a weaker standard. Fans also are realizing that dana isnt any more credible than a politician who lies to get elected. But even presidential terms come to an end eventually.

Well said

Longtime Fan been putting up a Longtime Fight against Dana & Zuffa too.

Man now this was a good read, well said. And this needs to be on the hompe page.

there are a lot of assumptions made in this thread. The fall of the UFC does not mean good things for other MMA promotion. Any argument that it does just shows a lack of understanding capitalism. The whole "casual fan" as you put it is proof of this. Casuals will always be your numbers.

Second, I lean UFC because regardless of it's politco and bureaucratic nature for two reason. 1, first on the scene. I don't care if you can prove to me someone else held MMA events before them. They brought it to the public, they made us U.S. aware. 2, they may not have all of the best, but they do have more. Their roster at HW kills everyone else. Their champions are excellent. JDS, JJ, Anderson, GSP, Bendo, those are damn good dudes. sure bigger fights and a more open promotion would be great, but I'm not about to hope they fail because I like some guys outside the UFC, or because they're unfair.


There are a lot of fans who want to believe in this magical getting ride of the king and saving the industry scenario. That's not how markets work. If McDonalds was in trouble you can sure bet yer ass BK is too. If HBO is hurting so is Sky. When the US market falls a little so does everyone else's. Think about it, give me an example of the monopoly failing and the industry it left being fine. All you'll find is governments forcing it, which there's no chance of here. Quit dreaming

marchegiano wrote:
Second, I lean UFC because regardless of it's politco and bureaucratic nature for two reason. 1, first on the scene. I don't care if you can prove to me someone else held MMA events before them. They brought it to the public, they made us U.S. aware. 2, they may not have all of the best, but they do have more. Their roster at HW kills everyone else. Their champions are excellent. JDS, JJ, Anderson, GSP, Bendo, those are damn good dudes. sure bigger fights and a more open promotion would be great, but I'm not about to hope they fail because I like some guys outside the UFC, or because they're unfair.

This part of your rant is wrong, then you say you dont care if proved otherwise. I knew about mixed competition before I ever knew what ufc was. Perhaps you mean in america? And even if you did, lots of people who trained Martial arts and were serious have been training multiple arts since the jeet kune do days. They didnt create it, they were NOT the first, they will NOT be the last. They made it popular in america and the product in the cage couldn't even do that with out the help of a reality show.

marchegiano wrote:there are a lot of assumptions made in this thread. The fall of the UFC does not mean good things for other MMA promotion. Any argument that it does just shows a lack of understanding capitalism. The whole "casual fan" as you put it is proof of this. Casuals will always be your numbers.

Second, I lean UFC because regardless of it's politco and bureaucratic nature for two reason. 1, first on the scene. I don't care if you can prove to me someone else held MMA events before them. They brought it to the public, they made us U.S. aware. 2, they may not have all of the best, but they do have more. Their roster at HW kills everyone else. Their champions are excellent. JDS, JJ, Anderson, GSP, Bendo, those are damn good dudes. sure bigger fights and a more open promotion would be great, but I'm not about to hope they fail because I like some guys outside the UFC, or because they're unfair.


There are a lot of fans who want to believe in this magical getting ride of the king and saving the industry scenario. That's not how markets work. If McDonalds was in trouble you can sure bet yer ass BK is too. If HBO is hurting so is Sky. When the US market falls a little so does everyone else's. Think about it, give me an example of the monopoly failing and the industry it left being fine. All you'll find is governments forcing it, which there's no chance of here. Quit dreaming

You are mixing up endogenous and exogenous causes of economic trouble. A generalized decline in a particular market/industry affecting all (or most) major players is symptomatic of an exogenous crisis. An endogenous crisis would be when a market player encounters trouble due to problems internal to the firm itself.

In product markets moreover, there are close linkages between firms. For example, the automobile industry and glass, steel, rubber, plastic, and parts manufacturers. This isn't really the case for industries like television broadcasting or entertainment in general (of which sports is a part).

That isn't to say that there is necessarily nothing to your argument, but a lot of the premise is flawed imo.

And there are many examples of a major company being forced out of a major product market by its competitors. Such incidences are typically the result of internal troubles in the firm that is taken over. Basically the entire history of mergers and acquisitions is largely symptomatic of this.

I'll put money on...

1. The UFC falling from a PRIDE-like scandal involving major organized crime involvement with the Fertitta's fronting for the Kansas City Mob which set the family casino business up.

2. Failure, bankruptcy, or other economic collapse. A dying US market no longer willing to pay $60 a PPV or $500 a seat on masse to watch and FOX troubles are big signs that things are not on the financial footing they once were in the house of Zuffa. With their home market already shrinking quite substantially they are frantically trying to open up new markets. This has been the #1 downfall of every empire in history.

For years I've followed ever single piece of business news out there on Frank, Lorenzo, Station Casinos, Xyience, Fertitta Enterprises (investments & real estate), Gordon Biersch Brewing, et al. The people that scoff at what I say about the business of the Fertitta's Zuffa evidently don't. All the public historic sales numbers, industry business analysts, and the world's top financial analysts don't lie.

Almost shit my pants when Dana went after Arum as a bad promoter. Arum just sold another 1 million plus ppv and the UFC hasn't done that in 2+ years.

Marines just dropped their sponsorship. Something is definitely up.

nodogoshi wrote:

marchegiano wrote:there are a lot of assumptions made in this thread. The fall of the UFC does not mean good things for other MMA promotion. Any argument that it does just shows a lack of understanding capitalism. The whole "casual fan" as you put it is proof of this. Casuals will always be your numbers.

Second, I lean UFC because regardless of it's politco and bureaucratic nature for two reason. 1, first on the scene. I don't care if you can prove to me someone else held MMA events before them. They brought it to the public, they made us U.S. aware. 2, they may not have all of the best, but they do have more. Their roster at HW kills everyone else. Their champions are excellent. JDS, JJ, Anderson, GSP, Bendo, those are damn good dudes. sure bigger fights and a more open promotion would be great, but I'm not about to hope they fail because I like some guys outside the UFC, or because they're unfair.


There are a lot of fans who want to believe in this magical getting ride of the king and saving the industry scenario. That's not how markets work. If McDonalds was in trouble you can sure bet yer ass BK is too. If HBO is hurting so is Sky. When the US market falls a little so does everyone else's. Think about it, give me an example of the monopoly failing and the industry it left being fine. All you'll find is governments forcing it, which there's no chance of here. Quit dreaming

You are mixing up endogenous and exogenous causes of economic trouble. A generalized decline in a particular market/industry affecting all (or most) major players is symptomatic of an exogenous crisis. An endogenous crisis would be when a market player encounters trouble due to problems internal to the firm itself.

In product markets moreover, there are close linkages between firms. For example, the automobile industry and glass, steel, rubber, plastic, and parts manufacturers. This isn't really the case for industries like television broadcasting or entertainment in general (of which sports is a part).

That isn't to say that there is necessarily nothing to your argument, but a lot of the premise is flawed imo.

And there are many examples of a major company being forced out of a major product market by its competitors. Such incidences are typically the result of internal troubles in the firm that is taken over. Basically the entire history of mergers and acquisitions is largely symptomatic of this.

GDP, and UFC's biggest competitor is not an MMA org in any facet.

marchegiano wrote:

nodogoshi wrote:

marchegiano wrote:there are a lot of assumptions made in this thread. The fall of the UFC does not mean good things for other MMA promotion. Any argument that it does just shows a lack of understanding capitalism. The whole "casual fan" as you put it is proof of this. Casuals will always be your numbers.

Second, I lean UFC because regardless of it's politco and bureaucratic nature for two reason. 1, first on the scene. I don't care if you can prove to me someone else held MMA events before them. They brought it to the public, they made us U.S. aware. 2, they may not have all of the best, but they do have more. Their roster at HW kills everyone else. Their champions are excellent. JDS, JJ, Anderson, GSP, Bendo, those are damn good dudes. sure bigger fights and a more open promotion would be great, but I'm not about to hope they fail because I like some guys outside the UFC, or because they're unfair.


There are a lot of fans who want to believe in this magical getting ride of the king and saving the industry scenario. That's not how markets work. If McDonalds was in trouble you can sure bet yer ass BK is too. If HBO is hurting so is Sky. When the US market falls a little so does everyone else's. Think about it, give me an example of the monopoly failing and the industry it left being fine. All you'll find is governments forcing it, which there's no chance of here. Quit dreaming

You are mixing up endogenous and exogenous causes of economic trouble. A generalized decline in a particular market/industry affecting all (or most) major players is symptomatic of an exogenous crisis. An endogenous crisis would be when a market player encounters trouble due to problems internal to the firm itself.

In product markets moreover, there are close linkages between firms. For example, the automobile industry and glass, steel, rubber, plastic, and parts manufacturers. This isn't really the case for industries like television broadcasting or entertainment in general (of which sports is a part).

That isn't to say that there is necessarily nothing to your argument, but a lot of the premise is flawed imo.

And there are many examples of a major company being forced out of a major product market by its competitors. Such incidences are typically the result of internal troubles in the firm that is taken over. Basically the entire history of mergers and acquisitions is largely symptomatic of this.

GDP, and UFC's biggest competitor is not an MMA org in any facet.

Say whaa?

marchegiano wrote:there are a lot of assumptions made in this thread. The fall of the UFC does not mean good things for other MMA promotion. Any argument that it does just shows a lack of understanding capitalism. The whole "casual fan" as you put it is proof of this. Casuals will always be your numbers.

Second, I lean UFC because regardless of it's politco and bureaucratic nature for two reason. 1, first on the scene. I don't care if you can prove to me someone else held MMA events before them. They brought it to the public, they made us U.S. aware. 2, they may not have all of the best, but they do have more. Their roster at HW kills everyone else. Their champions are excellent. JDS, JJ, Anderson, GSP, Bendo, those are damn good dudes. sure bigger fights and a more open promotion would be great, but I'm not about to hope they fail because I like some guys outside the UFC, or because they're unfair.


There are a lot of fans who want to believe in this magical getting ride of the king and saving the industry scenario. That's not how markets work. If McDonalds was in trouble you can sure bet yer ass BK is too. If HBO is hurting so is Sky. When the US market falls a little so does everyone else's. Think about it, give me an example of the monopoly failing and the industry it left being fine. All you'll find is governments forcing it, which there's no chance of here. Quit dreaming

You´re a cool dude but in this case you look at the sport from an american perspective and not global perspective. M-1, KSW, Glory, ONE, DREAM and so on would only get bigger not smaller if Zuffa went out of business. The way Zuffa is doing business they hold other promotions back. Imagine if mentioned promotions signed the top guys from the UFC roster and got all the media attention.

Lofgren wrote:
You´re a cool dude but in this case you look at the sport from an american perspective and not global perspective. M-1, KSW, Glory, ONE, DREAM and so on would only get bigger not smaller if Zuffa went out of business. The way Zuffa is doing business they hold other promotions back. Imagine if mentioned promotions signed the top guys from the UFC roster and got all the media attention.

Very true Lofgren, ive said all along that Zuffa is more of a hindrance to MMA than a help. MMA run like a true sport would be welcomed by the public. MMA should be run as a sport and not as a WWE style entertainment.

Promotions should work together as per the aims of the "World Alliance of Mixed Martial Arts", UFC was the only one that refused to work with everyone else. This was at the height of UFC. MMA would have been better without the constant hindrance of Zuffa.

In response to marchegiano I am just analyzing the trends I see , of course part of me would like to see the zuffa operated corrupted version of UFC Mma affected in a negative way given the history of how it came to power (forefront of Mma landscape). If it would've gotten there fairly without hostiles financial takeovers , blacklisting , threatening sponsors and media , etc. then I wouldn't have a problem with them.

Unfortunately I know history and it's context and I believe in karma . All that negativity that zuffa has put out is starting to come back to them now because fans are waking up to reality. Mma suffered when the UFC took the helm just like anything that gets monopolized and there is barely any worthy competition to battle the front runner in order to justify quality control.


Let me ask you this , do you really love Mma nowadays compared to the pride golden era ?

Lofgren wrote:

marchegiano wrote:there are a lot of assumptions made in this thread. The fall of the UFC does not mean good things for other MMA promotion. Any argument that it does just shows a lack of understanding capitalism. The whole "casual fan" as you put it is proof of this. Casuals will always be your numbers.

Second, I lean UFC because regardless of it's politco and bureaucratic nature for two reason. 1, first on the scene. I don't care if you can prove to me someone else held MMA events before them. They brought it to the public, they made us U.S. aware. 2, they may not have all of the best, but they do have more. Their roster at HW kills everyone else. Their champions are excellent. JDS, JJ, Anderson, GSP, Bendo, those are damn good dudes. sure bigger fights and a more open promotion would be great, but I'm not about to hope they fail because I like some guys outside the UFC, or because they're unfair.


There are a lot of fans who want to believe in this magical getting ride of the king and saving the industry scenario. That's not how markets work. If McDonalds was in trouble you can sure bet yer ass BK is too. If HBO is hurting so is Sky. When the US market falls a little so does everyone else's. Think about it, give me an example of the monopoly failing and the industry it left being fine. All you'll find is governments forcing it, which there's no chance of here. Quit dreaming

You´re a cool dude but in this case you look at the sport from an american perspective and not global perspective. M-1, KSW, Glory, ONE, DREAM and so on would only get bigger not smaller if Zuffa went out of business. The way Zuffa is doing business they hold other promotions back. Imagine if mentioned promotions signed the top guys from the UFC roster and got all the media attention.

Exactly right, but y'all have mistaken the American perspective. It's kinda why I didn't respond directly to longtime when he embolden a half quote. The bit he emboldened omitted my admition to seeing things from a US perspective. to which he chose to respond, but the answer to his response was already posted in that omitting.Y'all have this assumption that it's more to do with nation pride, or maybe you just think we're stupid I dunno. Even though the UFC has been dominated by non-us fighters for ever. It has to do with GDP. 100 fans in Russia is not worth a 100 fans in the US. Even rich nations falter under GDP if they are not producing. We've had this argument before. Y'all reckon there are close competitors, but the truth is 15-16 trill GDP is the reason why the UFC does not care how well KSW does in Poland(1/5 trill), or M-1 in Russia(2.2trill). It's not good enough to match viewers and ticket sales. you have to match numbers by nation otherwise your second rate, and it's not good enough to simply say rich nations, you have to match nations with flow. Kind of what I was hinting at with Nodo. In fact, the UFC is pushing to get into China. China has the second largest GDP. There's a damn good reason to be big in china. 7 trill strong GDP and more then double the citizen count. Means pretty similar numbers, and completely trumps trying to grow your brand in Poland, Russia, and Netherlands. One, and Dream are real competition if they can corner their markets as completely as the UFC has. Dream I hold little hope for just because we've watched the struggle to maintain let alone grow for so many years now. One has some real potential, but no more so then a minor US based org like Bellator. Thing is, the UFC still has the capital to buy their competitors, and their competitors do not have the capital to buy the UFC.

Secondly, I could easily see a boxing promoter buying the UFC before I could see a promotion with such little assests as KSW, m-1, glory, dream, or one. They don't have the money, and before they can capitalize on the void left someone who does will. I do not reckon that bodes well for MMA, but then again it could be the best thing to ever happen.


I made a lot of assumptions as well in my post, but I'm really just trying to offer good counter-point. I honestly could not care less about the orgs. MMA will continue to happen. I don't care if it goes just like Kickboxing with a short stint as main stream sport. then an implosion back to run of the mil side sport people only care about during the Olympics......which speaking of might want to check GDP's against gold medals....Anyway, I say the vehement hope of the UFC failing is naive thinking. Sure there has been oligopolies who have eaten each other and done well, but requires an oli. Unless yer to honestly believe for real, your a grown ass man who believes, Bellator, or maybe One are about equal. equal in endorsement, tickets, PPV, merch, etc. Which we all know is well off just by watching TV. UFC/ufc fighter commercials are unavoidable no matter the channel. Bellator? kinda matters dunit.

So, why is it the Casual fan only knows about the UFC? Because the UFC is the only one with enough money to advertise to the casual fan. The best anyone else can hope for is an advert of a sports channel or the channel that airs the events. You'll not see an ad for M-1 global why watching Family Guy on NBC, but you might see GSP. That shit is much much more then y'all give credit to.

I personally haven't seen a ufc guy in a commercial in forever. Then again im not big into tv.
Im not too worried about it, zuffa will be its own downfall.

marchegiano wrote:

Lofgren wrote:

marchegiano wrote:there are a lot of assumptions made in this thread. The fall of the UFC does not mean good things for other MMA promotion. Any argument that it does just shows a lack of understanding capitalism. The whole "casual fan" as you put it is proof of this. Casuals will always be your numbers.

Second, I lean UFC because regardless of it's politco and bureaucratic nature for two reason. 1, first on the scene. I don't care if you can prove to me someone else held MMA events before them. They brought it to the public, they made us U.S. aware. 2, they may not have all of the best, but they do have more. Their roster at HW kills everyone else. Their champions are excellent. JDS, JJ, Anderson, GSP, Bendo, those are damn good dudes. sure bigger fights and a more open promotion would be great, but I'm not about to hope they fail because I like some guys outside the UFC, or because they're unfair.


There are a lot of fans who want to believe in this magical getting ride of the king and saving the industry scenario. That's not how markets work. If McDonalds was in trouble you can sure bet yer ass BK is too. If HBO is hurting so is Sky. When the US market falls a little so does everyone else's. Think about it, give me an example of the monopoly failing and the industry it left being fine. All you'll find is governments forcing it, which there's no chance of here. Quit dreaming

You´re a cool dude but in this case you look at the sport from an american perspective and not global perspective. M-1, KSW, Glory, ONE, DREAM and so on would only get bigger not smaller if Zuffa went out of business. The way Zuffa is doing business they hold other promotions back. Imagine if mentioned promotions signed the top guys from the UFC roster and got all the media attention.

Exactly right, but y'all have mistaken the American perspective. It's kinda why I didn't respond directly to longtime when he embolden a half quote. The bit he emboldened omitted my admition to seeing things from a US perspective. to which he chose to respond, but the answer to his response was already posted in that omitting.Y'all have this assumption that it's more to do with nation pride, or maybe you just think we're stupid I dunno. Even though the UFC has been dominated by non-us fighters for ever. It has to do with GDP. 100 fans in Russia is not worth a 100 fans in the US. Even rich nations falter under GDP if they are not producing. We've had this argument before. Y'all reckon there are close competitors, but the truth is 15-16 trill GDP is the reason why the UFC does not care how well KSW does in Poland(1/5 trill), or M-1 in Russia(2.2trill). It's not good enough to match viewers and ticket sales. you have to match numbers by nation otherwise your second rate, and it's not good enough to simply say rich nations, you have to match nations with flow. Kind of what I was hinting at with Nodo. In fact, the UFC is pushing to get into China. China has the second largest GDP. There's a damn good reason to be big in china. 7 trill strong GDP and more then double the citizen count. Means pretty similar numbers, and completely trumps trying to grow your brand in Poland, Russia, and Netherlands. One, and Dream are real competition if they can corner their markets as completely as the UFC has. Dream I hold little hope for just because we've watched the struggle to maintain let alone grow for so many years now. One has some real potential, but no more so then a minor US based org like Bellator. Thing is, the UFC still has the capital to buy their competitors, and their competitors do not have the capital to buy the UFC.

Secondly, I could easily see a boxing promoter buying the UFC before I could see a promotion with such little assests as KSW, m-1, glory, dream, or one. They don't have the money, and before they can capitalize on the void left someone who does will. I do not reckon that bodes well for MMA, but then again it could be the best thing to ever happen.


I made a lot of assumptions as well in my post, but I'm really just trying to offer good counter-point. I honestly could not care less about the orgs. MMA will continue to happen. I don't care if it goes just like Kickboxing with a short stint as main stream sport. then an implosion back to run of the mil side sport people only care about during the Olympics......which speaking of might want to check GDP's against gold medals....Anyway, I say the vehement hope of the UFC failing is naive thinking. Sure there has been oligopolies who have eaten each other and done well, but requires an oli. Unless yer to honestly believe for real, your a grown ass man who believes, Bellator, or maybe One are about equal. equal in endorsement, tickets, PPV, merch, etc. Which we all know is well off just by watching TV. UFC/ufc fighter commercials are unavoidable no matter the channel. Bellator? kinda matters dunit.

So, why is it the Casual fan only knows about the UFC? Because the UFC is the only one with enough money to advertise to the casual fan. The best anyone else can hope for is an advert of a sports channel or the channel that airs the events. You'll not see an ad for M-1 global why watching Family Guy on NBC, but you might see GSP. That shit is much much more then y'all give credit to.

That wasn't me that quoted and emboldened your text.

Tournament MMA is the only way!

BELLATOR FOR LIFE!

good debate

i was big into the MA back in the 80's and 90's, we got together to watch pride here in north America long before the UFC, the whole "the UFC started it" myth is a joke. They were however the first to mass market MMA in America... and there is the problem... MMA is not a mainstream sport and may never be accepted as such... MMA is a fringe... the average family is not going to site down and watch an evening of brutal real life hand to hand violence... thats why MMA rules have been devolving into wrestle-boxing... the more you make MMA passive the more it is marketable to the mainstream but by then it will be so boring nobody will have any interest.

we need fans and orgs to understand, you are in the minority, its a fringe sport so market it and manage it as such

Zoidborg wrote:good debate

i was big into the MA back in the 80's and 90's, we got together to watch pride here in north America long before the UFC, the whole "the UFC started it" myth is a joke. They were however the first to mass market MMA in America... and there is the problem... MMA is not a mainstream sport and may never be accepted as such... MMA is a fringe... the average family is not going to site down and watch an evening of brutal real life hand to hand violence... thats why MMA rules have been devolving into wrestle-boxing... the more you make MMA passive the more it is marketable to the mainstream but by then it will be so boring nobody will have any interest.

we need fans and orgs to understand, you are in the minority, its a fringe sport so market it and manage it as such

Has to be the best post yet. Just reaks of unbiased, honest, and real-life. I may be a bit too money minded to relate it simply as UFC is or at least was for a time close to mainstream and everyone else is lust flat out fringe.