Re: The Greatest MMA Fighter of All Time

Sun Mar 10, 2013 6:06 am

monaroCountry wrote:Fujita and Hunt were very dangerous and shouldnt be regarded as cans both would win against many current UFC fighters.

who said anything about Fujita and Hunt being cans?

Sun Mar 10, 2013 9:14 am

BlackZeus wrote:

AudaxSmoke wrote:

BlackZeus wrote:Because he didn't win a belt or dominate in pride I presume will be your strongest argument.

Organizations aren't what matters, Fedor fought better competition(being their rankings at the time and past championships) consistently throughout his career.

When opponents names come to mind Fedor's list tops Anderson's IMO.

Anderson I can come up with MAJOR WINS: Mach, Newton, Franklin, and Hendo. Maybe you could tag in Murray, Marquardt, and Vitor tops.

Fedor brings up, MAJOR WINS: Nog, CroCop, Schilt, Randleman, Alovski, Sylvia, and then tag in Coleman, Fujita, Herring, Babalu, even our beloved Hunto.

They've both defeated some awesome opponents and champions of combat sports but Fedor takes it easy.

Now what's you're reasoning for Anderson being tops? No need to make assumptions or get aggressive, we want everyone to voice their opinion.

Mach
Murray
Newton
Hendo
Okami
Sonnen
Marquardt
Griffin
Franklin 2x's
Vitor
Maia

No way in hell, is Fujita, Hunt and Herring equivalent to Vitor and Marquardt. Former champions in their own right. Now, Anderson and Fedor are around the same age, started their careers relatively around the same time (Anderson actually started his MMA career first and is just a tad older). They have both beaten some great fighters and beaten a lot of cans, but I wouldn't say Fedor's resume is more impressive at all. I would actually put them even based on the fact that Fedor competed at HW and it was in Pride, which we all LOVED SO MUCH. But an aspect everyone always fails to realize is that Fedor was basically the only COMPLETE MARTIAL ARTIST to compete at HW during his reign. Anderson dominates in an era where most guys know everything or at least are highly adept in about two or three disciplines. Yes Fedor beat most of them at their own game, but that was their ONLY game.

Anderson took his losses early in his career, to not so good opponents who were by no means complete fighters either, because he was not yet a good mixed martial artist or complete himself. As he got older he got better. Honed his skills. Tightened up his all around game. Anderson won championships in three different organizations. Then there is his current streak and records. The amount of finishes. How can you deny the amount of title defenses in MMA in this day and age? Fedor's streak was impressive as fuck but he didn't do it defending a title. Plus how can you deny "Like Water"? How can you deny having a hurt rib and calling a Babe Ruth like submission that you happen to pull off with about a minute left in a fight you spent getting wrestle raped to death and eating about 300 punches from a guy juiced to his gills?? Anderson has a granite chin. Plus when Fedor came to the states he lost three times. Badly. Anderson dominated in both ring and cage. I have much respect for Fedor and I put him and Anderson at about the same level but Anderson in my eyes would get the slight edge just because he hasn't fallen off and won across many platforms and many divisions.

To my knowledge there is no precedent for anyone being considered a GOAT in combat sports that has 3 or 4 losses in their first 19 or 20 matches. Then taking into account that career losses are to non-ranked opponents with 2 being in non-major league organizations (a DQ is a loss in any sport regardless of anything - you did something illegal), that makes an argument for GOAT even tougher for Anderson.

Sugar Ray Robinson:
- 40-0 (41st was 1st loss to top-ranked LaMotta went to 128-1-2 before losing again)
- undefeated as an Amateur (85-0)

Joe Louis:
- 23-0 (24th was 1st loss to top-ranked Schmelling went to 58-1 before losing again)

Ali:
31-0 (32th was 1st loss to top-ranked Frazier went to 43-1 before losing again)
- Olympic gold medal

or...

Aleksandr Karelin: 13 years - 0 (undefeated GRW - Day 1 to 13 years - 1st loss to top-ranked Gardner)

Sun Mar 10, 2013 2:26 pm

BlackZeus wrote:

No way in hell, is Fujita, Hunt and Herring equivalent to Vitor and Marquardt. Former champions in their own right.

I never said those wins were equivalent, everyone, I was just going for a name list off the top of my head at the time. Shocked

Anyways like wekka was saying Fujita was Japan's best HW MMA fighter and Herring was ranked highly at the time. Hunt just came to thought being he was a former K-1 champ at the time. I guess I could've included Griffin and Maia on Anderson's list but it slipped my mind honestly.

Thanks BlackZeus for taking the time to type out and share your opinion.

Tue Mar 26, 2013 10:35 am

Wow, you guys really are just super bias. There is no reasoning with most of you. Thank you wekka and Audax for actually being objective and respectful.

@Pride FC. Come on man. Fedor is a HW and got KO'd by Dan @ 210lbs maybe. Anderson made Dan look like a rookie. Also Prime CroCop got his head kicked off by Gabriel Gonzaga. Is Gonzaga GOAT? If all you have is two fighters to say Fedor is more qualified for GOAT than Anderson then that in itself is a huge joke. Prime Nog lost to Hendo and Barnett. Are they GOAT? Prime Crocop got KTFO by Randleman. Is he GOAT?

@Dagwood. Seriously a ridiculous argument. MMA is not boxing. In boxing you are not considered a legend if you lost a lot of fights. In MMA you still can be a legend with tons of losses. See Saku, Wandy, Randy, etc.... For you to even pull that card just proves your lack of knowledge and bias.

It is a fact, Anderson's resume is better than Fedor's. Only reason I even have Fedor and Anderson closely ranked as far as GOAT is because I agree that Anderson should be fighting at LHW.

Tue Mar 26, 2013 1:02 pm

BlackZeus wrote:Wow, you guys really are just super bias. There is no reasoning with most of you. Thank you wekka and Audax for actually being objective and respectful.

@Pride FC. Come on man. Fedor is a HW and got KO'd by Dan @ 210lbs maybe. Anderson made Dan look like a rookie. Also Prime CroCop got his head kicked off by Gabriel Gonzaga. Is Gonzaga GOAT? If all you have is two fighters to say Fedor is more qualified for GOAT than Anderson then that in itself is a huge joke. Prime Nog lost to Hendo and Barnett. Are they GOAT? Prime Crocop got KTFO by Randleman. Is he GOAT?

@Dagwood. Seriously a ridiculous argument. MMA is not boxing. In boxing you are not considered a legend if you lost a lot of fights. In MMA you still can be a legend with tons of losses. See Saku, Wandy, Randy, etc.... For you to even pull that card just proves your lack of knowledge and bias.

It is a fact, Anderson's resume is better than Fedor's. Only reason I even have Fedor and Anderson closely ranked as far as GOAT is because I agree that Anderson should be fighting at LHW.

The Greatest MMA Fighter of All Time - Page 2 3466661197

Dan is not the same fighter when he cuts weight, Anderson did not beat the best hendo. Jake shields dominated Hendo at MW. Also Hendo got lucky against Fedor and Fedor was by far the better fighter. Cro Cop was past prime against Gonzaga and was never good in the cage with the UFC rules.

The PRIDE HW division was much better than the UFC MW division and you know it

Tue Mar 26, 2013 2:07 pm

What a joke. The fighters Silva beat in the UFC are OVERALL better than the fighters Fedor beat in Pride. That is a fact. Good job dodging every single valid point in my previous post. Crocop just won K-1 and now he was a shell of himself in his second UFC fight? What a joke.

Tue Mar 26, 2013 2:11 pm

My p4p top 4

1. Fedor

Dude is the definition of p4p. He constantly beat fighters bigger than him, and they were in their primes. Beat prime nog in his guard and beat prime Mirko on the feet. Thats the definition of well-rounded.

2. GSP

Lay n pray but he's beat everyone in a MURDEROUS welterweight division. He is probably the most well-rounded fighter out right now.

3. Bones Jones

He has beaten 6 former champs in a row who are all murderers (except vitor, he's super overrated, did nothing to jones)

4. Andy Silva

He has never beaten a KO power striker or a technical striker so it's easy for him to look good against guys who can't strike to save their lives (sonnen dropped him twice..) . The MW division is WEAK and half the guys andy beat are either current welterweights or have gone missing.

Tue Mar 26, 2013 2:11 pm

BlackZeus wrote:What a joke. The fighters Silva beat in the UFC are OVERALL better than the fighters Fedor beat in Pride. That is a fact. Good job dodging every single valid point in my previous post. Crocop just won K-1 and now he was a shell of himself in his second UFC fight? What a joke.

LOLOLOLOL

"crocop just won K-1"

shows how much you know about kickboxing.

Tue Mar 26, 2013 2:13 pm

BlackZeus wrote:What a joke. The fighters Silva beat in the UFC are OVERALL better than the fighters Fedor beat in Pride. That is a fact. Good job dodging every single valid point in my previous post. Crocop just won K-1 and now he was a shell of himself in his second UFC fight? What a joke.

The latest K-1 was weak and Cro Cop is way past his prime, anyone can see that. I´m not dodging your points I´m telling you the truth. The PRIDE HW division was better than the UFC MW division, you get it? Fedor was more well rounded than Anderson and the greatest mma fighter of all time. Anderson should have fought in the LHW division instead of hiding at MW and cutting weight.

Tue Mar 26, 2013 2:36 pm

Dapperdoo wrote:My p4p top 4

1. Fedor

Dude is the definition of p4p. He constantly beat fighters bigger than him, and they were in their primes. Beat prime nog in his guard and beat prime Mirko on the feet. Thats the definition of well-rounded.

2. GSP

Lay n pray but he's beat everyone in a MURDEROUS welterweight division. He is probably the most well-rounded fighter out right now.

3. Bones Jones

He has beaten 6 former champs in a row who are all murderers (except vitor, he's super overrated, did nothing to jones)

4. Andy Silva

He has never beaten a KO power striker or a technical striker so it's easy for him to look good against guys who can't strike to save their lives (sonnen dropped him twice..) . The MW division is WEAK and half the guys andy beat are either current welterweights or have gone missing.

This is the biggest joke of all. hendo is not a power striker? He landed clean on Ando once, when he landed clean on Fedor he put him to sleep. Vitor is not a striking technician? What happened to him? The Greatest MMA Fighter of All Time - Page 2 3973136183

The Greatest MMA Fighter of All Time - Page 2 3973136183

this is hilarious.

And@ Pride FC. Who besides Coleman, CroCop, Nog and Barnett made the Pride HW mean anything? I will tell you, NO ONE. You keep saying UFC MW division like that is the only place Anderson competed in his career. And you keep using the Pride HW division like that is the only place Fedor competed in his career. That just proves how bias and completely wrong you are. Anderson's career of victims shits on Fedor's. Plus the only measuring tool they have is Hendo and we all know how those fights went down. You are so delusional it is not even funny.

Tue Mar 26, 2013 2:43 pm

Why are you acting like CroCop wasn't a legit #2 in the world when he fought Fedor? When he fought Gonzaga was almost 2 years after he battled Fedor, Yes Mirko won the 06 GP but he also had the easiest route to the finals, And fought Wand who that night used one of his dumbest gameplans ever and got already beat down Barnet btw.
CroCop was talking about calling it quits at that point in time. However Ufc came calling with Some Big money so Crocop went, He was at the end of his Prime his first year in ufc and Gonzaga deserves credit for a hell of a upset but that is imo where Crocops prime ended. He has said numerous times he didn't want to fight anymore, he didnt like or train for mma in a cage and the rules were totaly different then what he was use too.
Crocop is far past due retirement now.
Andy has NEVER went toe to toe with someone at 05 Crocops level or skill.

Why are you so aggressive?

Tue Mar 26, 2013 2:50 pm

PRIDE NEVER DIE wrote:Why are you acting like CroCop wasn't a legit #2 in the world when he fought Fedor? When he fought Gonzaga was almost 2 years after he battled Fedor, Yes Mirko won the 06 GP but he also had the easiest route to the finals, And fought Wand who that night used one of his dumbest gameplans ever and got already beat down Barnet btw.
CroCop was talking about calling it quits at that point in time. However Ufc came calling with Some Big money so Crocop went, He was at the end of his Prime his first year in ufc and Gonzaga deserves credit for a hell of a upset but that is imo where Crocops prime ended. He has said numerous times he didn't want to fight anymore, he didnt like or train for mma in a cage and the rules were totaly different then what he was use too.
Crocop is far past due retirement now.
Andy has NEVER went toe to toe with someone at 05 Crocops level or skill.

Why are you so aggressive?

Who is being aggressive? You agree Crocop was still in his prime when he fought Gonzaga then wouldn't that mean Gonzaga should be considered GOAT now? The Greatest MMA Fighter of All Time - Page 2 3973136183

How ridiculous does that sound? Do you see why it is a joke to say that is why Fedor should be GOAT over Anderson? Crocop wasn't some super MMA technician who was marvelous everywhere so this "level or skill" you speak of must just be about his kickboxing then. That was addressed in my first response to all of this. Fedor was the ONLY WELL ROUNDED HW IN PRIDE WHICH IS WHY HE BEAT EVERYONE. Do you still not understand that?

Tue Mar 26, 2013 2:53 pm

BlackZeus wrote:

PRIDE NEVER DIE wrote:Why are you acting like CroCop wasn't a legit #2 in the world when he fought Fedor? When he fought Gonzaga was almost 2 years after he battled Fedor, Yes Mirko won the 06 GP but he also had the easiest route to the finals, And fought Wand who that night used one of his dumbest gameplans ever and got already beat down Barnet btw.
CroCop was talking about calling it quits at that point in time. However Ufc came calling with Some Big money so Crocop went, He was at the end of his Prime his first year in ufc and Gonzaga deserves credit for a hell of a upset but that is imo where Crocops prime ended. He has said numerous times he didn't want to fight anymore, he didnt like or train for mma in a cage and the rules were totaly different then what he was use too.
Crocop is far past due retirement now.
Andy has NEVER went toe to toe with someone at 05 Crocops level or skill.

Why are you so aggressive?

Who is being aggressive? You agree Crocop was still in his prime when he fought Gonzaga then wouldn't that mean Gonzaga should be considered GOAT now? How ridiculous does that sound? Do you see why it is a joke to say that is why Fedor should be GOAT over Anderson? Crocop wasn't some super MMA technician who was marvelous everywhere so this "level or skill" you speak of must just be about his kickboxing then. That was addressed in my first response to all of this. Fedor was the ONLY WELL ROUNDED HW IN PRIDE WHICH IS WHY HE BEAT EVERYONE. Do you still not understand that?

So should we call Ryo Chonan goat?

Seriously dude, this is going no where.

Tue Mar 26, 2013 2:56 pm

Huh? You are the one saying Fedor is GOAT because he beat Prime Crocop and Nog. I'm not the one using one or two fighters to make a claim, you are. I'm taking about overall resume of wins. Anderson's is far above Fedor's. Especially when you consider Anderson has dominated world wide, ring and cage. Fedor hasn't.

Tue Mar 26, 2013 3:09 pm

PRIME Schilt, Herring, Arona, Sobral, Big Nog x 2, Coleman, Randleman, Cro Cop, Arlovski, Sylvia, Fujita, Rogers. Even the Lindland Fedor beat is a better win than most of Andersons opponents.

You highly underrate the PRIDE HW division. A guy like Ron Waterman was better than Brock Lesnar.

Tue Mar 26, 2013 3:15 pm

PRIDE FC wrote:PRIME Schilt, Herring, Arona, Sobral, Big Nog x 2, Coleman, Randleman, Cro Cop, Arlovski, Sylvia, Fujita, Rogers. Even the Lindland Fedor beat is a better win than most of Andersons opponents.

You highly underrate the PRIDE HW division. A guy like Ron Waterman was better than Brock Lesnar.

The names you mentioned had qualities and you can't count them out, but i have to disagree about Lindland. He's really not better than most of his opponents, still a good veteran and solid wrestler.

Anyway just chill everyone.

Tue Mar 26, 2013 3:18 pm

PRIDE FC wrote:PRIME Schilt, Herring, Arona, Sobral, Big Nog x 2, Coleman, Randleman, Cro Cop, Arlovski, Sylvia, Fujita, Rogers. Even the Lindland Fedor beat is a better win than most of Andersons opponents.

You highly underrate the PRIDE HW division. A guy like Ron Waterman was better than Brock Lesnar.

Wow. Did you miss Audax's post? I give up.

Tue Mar 26, 2013 4:05 pm

Wolfman wrote:

PRIDE FC wrote:PRIME Schilt, Herring, Arona, Sobral, Big Nog x 2, Coleman, Randleman, Cro Cop, Arlovski, Sylvia, Fujita, Rogers. Even the Lindland Fedor beat is a better win than most of Andersons opponents.

You highly underrate the PRIDE HW division. A guy like Ron Waterman was better than Brock Lesnar.

The names you mentioned had qualities and you can't count them out, but i have to disagree about Lindland. He's really not better than most of his opponents, still a good veteran and solid wrestler.

Anyway just chill everyone.

Lindland was one of the best middleweights in the world when Fedor fought him and he beat Rampage according to many people. He was ranked #2 at MW.

Tue Mar 26, 2013 5:03 pm

Fedor is GOAT....End of story. Just ask the people of Brazil.

Tue Mar 26, 2013 6:13 pm

All I have to say is that Rogers and Lindland don't belong on any list of accomplishments. Especially Lindland in regards to Fedor.

Tue Mar 26, 2013 6:20 pm

to be fair to rogers he was on a 10 fight KO streak and he KO'd arlovski right after fedor did.

Tue Mar 26, 2013 11:15 pm

wekka wrote:All I have to say is that Rogers and Lindland don't belong on any list of accomplishments. Especially Lindland in regards to Fedor.

Nothing against you wekka, however everyone always acts like Rogers was/is a lowlevel nobody when in fact he is a decent heavyweight who people "conveniently" forget was ranked by many sources as a top 10 fighter at the time he went against Fedor.

I hate to use this link but this imo helps prove my point.

http://www.sherdog.com/news/rankings/2/Sherdog-Official-Mixed-Martial-Arts-Rankings-20584

Wed Mar 27, 2013 5:03 am

wekka wrote:All I have to say is that Rogers and Lindland don't belong on any list of accomplishments. Especially Lindland in regards to Fedor.

The Lindland Fedor fought is a better win than most of Andersons opponents. He was ranked #2 in the world and his record looked like this..

win Carlos Newton Submission (Guillotine Choke)
win Jeremy Horn TKO (Punches)
win Quinton Jackson Decision (Split)
win Mike Van Arsdale Submission (Guillotine Choke)
win Fabio Leopoldo Submission (Rear-Naked Choke)
win Antonio Schembri TKO (Punches)
win Joe Doerksen Decision (Unanimous)
win Travis Lutter Submission (Guillotine Choke)
win Landon Showalter Submission (Armbar)
win Mark Weir TKO (Doctor Stoppage)
loss David Terrell KO (Punches)
win Tony Fryklund Decision (Unanimous)
win Falaniko Vitale TKO (Punches)
loss Falaniko Vitale TKO (Slam)
win Phil Baroni Decision (Unanimous)
win Ivan Salaverry Decision (Unanimous)
loss Murilo Bustamante Submission (Guillotine Choke)
win Pat Miletich TKO (Punches)
win Phil Baroni Decision (Majority)
win Ricardo Almeida
win Yoji Anjo TKO (Punches)
win Travis Fulton Submission (Choke)
win Mark Waters Submission (Punches)
win Karo Davtyan TKO (Punches)

Wed Mar 27, 2013 6:03 am

Matt Lindland and Brett Rogers were legit wins at the time....

Wed Mar 27, 2013 8:26 am

Anderson is a highly skilled muay thai machine who couldn't cut it in Pride , not even WEC , and settled for the UFC. He found a home in the weakest division of the weakest organization at the time . He has an impressive run and is fun to watch most of the times. His biggest rival was a pillowfisted layNpraying trashtalkin-machine steroid-abuser money-laundering piece-of-scum failed politician. Really ?