Bellator 214: Fedor vs. Bader - January 26 (OFFICIAL DISCUSSION)

nodogoshi wrote:

CDF47 wrote:

nodogoshi wrote:

westcott123 wrote:https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10155710330081881&id=323571966880&anchor_composer=false

Chael gives fedor his props, lol at the first comment one of the replies the same person said "Dan Henderson is a better fighter then fedor which he proved when he knocked fedor out"

The same Dan who got submitted by the same big nog who got smashed twice by fedor..

The same Dan Henderson who won the first meeting with Big Nog, and who was champion of Rings, Pride (two divisions), and Strikeforce; and who almost became UFC champion in his retirement fight.

The guy saying what you refer to is a total tool, and Fedor is the greatest, but Dan Henderson is one of the greatest.

All of this was after going to two Olympics for greco-roman wrestling, in 1992 and 1996. And after 8 years of fighting, he also won the greco-roman pan-am games in 2004.

Dan Henderson is one of the greatest combat sports athletes of all time.

He doesn't get enough credit.

In fact, he did beat Fedor, and if I were next to Dan Henderson on a barstool and he wants to say he's greater than Fedor, he'd have a claim to it.

I don't think he'd say that. But he could argue it.

They are both great fighters.

But the mythical goat title, in my book, goes to Fedor.

That's right.  Dan Henderson is all that, I agree.  I also agree Fedor is the MMA GOAT.  I just wonder where to put him in combat sports GOAT status.  Would be cool to see him take this Bellator title despite the odds.  That would move him up in the combat sports rankings.

Fedor is high on the greatest combat sports athlete list.

He was sambo world champion, how many times?

He was runner-up in the Russian judo championship a few times.

He competed in a judo World Cup (which is a team competition). I don't know his individual results, but Russia won the silver medal.

I've seen where he claimed that he should have gone to the Olympics in judo. But he said that judo politics intervened. So, he started fighting. All the better for us, and a blessing in disguise for him, as well.

Nice. You make a stong argument for placing Fedor near or at the top. That's where I think he belongs.

nodogoshi wrote:On the subject of greatest combat sports athlete, Alexander Karelin comes to mind. Though he was a one-sport athlete, he was like a Japanese comic book character.

I wouldn't put him above Henderson or Fedor.

On a combat sports athlete list, I may rank Henderson higher than Fedor, though it is competitive.

Henderson just did more things, but they both did a lot, and such lists (like boxing pound-for-pound lists) are mostly entertainment anyway.

That's actually an interesting idea--combat sports top athletes--but those are three of my picks.

The number 1 is obviously Frank Dux, though. .

Yeah, I would like to see a combat sports top athletes ranking. I've never seen one before. I wonder where Tyson, Mayweather, Marciano, and the like would go.

I would give Fedor the edge over Henderson just based on the 10 year unbeaten streak. That is unheard of in MMA.

Oh yes, you got to give it to Frank Dux.

fka wrote:If a mw hendo beat fedor then a mw overeem beat lesnar

I forget what Hendo and Overeem weighed in at for those fights.

CDF47 wrote:

fka wrote:If a mw hendo beat fedor then a mw overeem beat lesnar

I forget what Hendo and Overeem weighed in at for those fights.

Overeem was a proper heavyweight, well before that fight.

He was a 205 pound fighter once, but he'd blown up on the steroids horse meat years before he fought Lesnar. I think he was weighing in the 240s range.

Henderson, I believe, weighed in at 206 for the Fedor fight. I remember he was asked in an interview about what he'd weigh for the fight, and he said to the effect "maybe I'll have to drink a bottle of water before I step on the scale to be at 206".

That wasn't "Hollywood" Dan "Hendo" Henderson's first heavyweight fight, as he fought openweight early in his career.

I think I'm forgetting one of Dan Henderson's nicknames. Anyone wanna help me out with that?

By the way, Mike Tyson was beaten by a cruiserweight Evander Holyfield (190 at the time, 200 now). Sonny Liston was beaten by a middleweight Muhammad Ali (he won his gold medal at middleweight, and went pro at heavyweight). Miguel Cotto was beaten by flyweight Manny Pacquiao (Pacquiao won his first world title at flyweight:112, and fought Cotto at welterweight:147. He actually weighed in at 106 for his first pro fight. 105 is strawweight. He was 17 when he turned pro, and 19 when he won his first world title.)

A final note. Something most people don't realize. Floyd Mayweather accused Manny Pacquiao of using steroids to move up in weight, and this being top professional sports, it may have been true--although Mayweather just as likely did the same, and there were serious accusations that Mayweather was indeed juicing.

That's not the point. The thing that's not known by many, at the time Manny Pacquiao turned pro at 106, or maybe just a few years earlier (and Mayweather is a little older than Pacquiao) an 18 or so year old Mayweather was fighting in the amateurs at 105 pounds.

Floyd Mayweather's run at 130 was one of the greatest. That's when he was at his best, before he started moving up in weight to chase paydays, in particular the Dela Hoya payday.

nodogoshi wrote:

CDF47 wrote:

fka wrote:If a mw hendo beat fedor then a mw overeem beat lesnar

I forget what Hendo and Overeem weighed in at for those fights.

Overeem was a proper heavyweight, well before that fight.

He was a 205 pound fighter once, but he'd blown up on the steroids horse meat years before he fought Lesnar. I think he was weighing in the 240s range.

Henderson, I believe, weighed in at 206 for the Fedor fight. I remember he was asked in an interview about what he'd weigh for the fight, and he said to the effect "maybe I'll have to drink a bottle of water before I step on the scale to be at 206".

That wasn't "Hollywood" Dan "Hendo" Henderson's first heavyweight fight, as he fought openweight early in his career.

I think I'm forgetting one of Dan Henderson's nicknames. Anyone wanna help me out with that?

Yeah, you could be right about Overeem's weight. Maybe upper 240s, lower 250s at most. I was at the Fedor fight with Hendo and the weigh-in but I forgot Hendo's weight. Crazy you can remember that.

Yeah, Dan would fight anyone. He is a legend in this sport for sure.

nodogoshi wrote:By the way, Mike Tyson was beaten by a cruiserweight Evander Holyfield (190 at the time, 200 now). Sonny Liston was beaten by a middleweight Muhammad Ali (he won his gold medal at middleweight, and went pro at heavyweight). Miguel Cotto was beaten by flyweight Manny Pacquiao (Pacquiao won his first world title at flyweight:112, and fought Cotto at welterweight:147. He actually weighed in at 106 for his first pro fight. 105 is strawweight. He was 17 when he turned pro, and 19 when he won his first world title.)

A final note. Something most people don't realize. Floyd Mayweather accused Manny Pacquiao of using steroids to move up in weight, and this being top professional sports, it may have been true--although Mayweather just as likely did the same, and there were serious accusations that Mayweather was indeed juicing.

That's not the point. The thing that's not known by many, at the time Manny Pacquiao turned pro at 106, or maybe just a few years earlier (and Mayweather is a little older than Pacquiao) an 18 or so year old Mayweather was fighting in the amateurs at 105 pounds.

That's true, some of the smaller fighters were the most successful. Not sure about the roids, Mayweather may have been on them. It wouldn't surprise me when so many athletes were on them.

CDF47 wrote:

nodogoshi wrote:By the way, Mike Tyson was beaten by a cruiserweight Evander Holyfield (190 at the time, 200 now). Sonny Liston was beaten by a middleweight Muhammad Ali (he won his gold medal at middleweight, and went pro at heavyweight). Miguel Cotto was beaten by flyweight Manny Pacquiao (Pacquiao won his first world title at flyweight:112, and fought Cotto at welterweight:147. He actually weighed in at 106 for his first pro fight. 105 is strawweight. He was 17 when he turned pro, and 19 when he won his first world title.)

A final note. Something most people don't realize. Floyd Mayweather accused Manny Pacquiao of using steroids to move up in weight, and this being top professional sports, it may have been true--although Mayweather just as likely did the same, and there were serious accusations that Mayweather was indeed juicing.

That's not the point. The thing that's not known by many, at the time Manny Pacquiao turned pro at 106, or maybe just a few years earlier (and Mayweather is a little older than Pacquiao) an 18 or so year old Mayweather was fighting in the amateurs at 105 pounds.

That's true, some of the smaller fighters were the most successful.  Not sure about the roids, Mayweather may have been on them.  It wouldn't surprise me when so many athletes were on them.

There was a lengthy article written by some online boxing publication which accused Mayweather of roiding, and had a lot of research behind it.

It might have been this article: https://www.sbnation.com/longform/2015/9/9/9271811/can-boxing-trust-usada

Nonetheless I consider it hearsay. Simply the epidemic level of drug cheating among top-level athletes opens it to speculation, but I don't really care that much, and consider it a case of innocent until proven guilty.

So, I wouldn't call Floyd a drug cheat. Floyd is a hypocrite though, because he moved up in weight just like Manny Pacqiauo. Like I said, they were fighting at the same weight at the same age, about. Maybe Mayweather was 16 when he was fighting at strawweight in the amateurs, I don't remember the exact age. Pacman went pro at 17, at 106, and Mayweather was around the same weight at around the same age.

So if Pacqiuao needed the juice to move through the weights, might as well say Mayweather did as well.

CDF47 wrote:

nodogoshi wrote:

CDF47 wrote:

fka wrote:If a mw hendo beat fedor then a mw overeem beat lesnar

I forget what Hendo and Overeem weighed in at for those fights.

Overeem was a proper heavyweight, well before that fight.

He was a 205 pound fighter once, but he'd blown up on the steroids horse meat years before he fought Lesnar. I think he was weighing in the 240s range.

Henderson, I believe, weighed in at 206 for the Fedor fight. I remember he was asked in an interview about what he'd weigh for the fight, and he said to the effect "maybe I'll have to drink a bottle of water before I step on the scale to be at 206".

That wasn't "Hollywood" Dan "Hendo" Henderson's first heavyweight fight, as he fought openweight early in his career.

I think I'm forgetting one of Dan Henderson's nicknames. Anyone wanna help me out with that?

Yeah, you could be right about Overeem's weight.  Maybe upper 240s, lower 250s at most.  I was at the Fedor fight with Hendo and the weigh-in but I forgot Hendo's weight.  Crazy you can remember that.  

Yeah, Dan would fight anyone.  He is a legend in this sport for sure.

On second thought, I think Overeem may have weighed in the 250s. That seems right.

nodogoshi wrote:

CDF47 wrote:

nodogoshi wrote:By the way, Mike Tyson was beaten by a cruiserweight Evander Holyfield (190 at the time, 200 now). Sonny Liston was beaten by a middleweight Muhammad Ali (he won his gold medal at middleweight, and went pro at heavyweight). Miguel Cotto was beaten by flyweight Manny Pacquiao (Pacquiao won his first world title at flyweight:112, and fought Cotto at welterweight:147. He actually weighed in at 106 for his first pro fight. 105 is strawweight. He was 17 when he turned pro, and 19 when he won his first world title.)

A final note. Something most people don't realize. Floyd Mayweather accused Manny Pacquiao of using steroids to move up in weight, and this being top professional sports, it may have been true--although Mayweather just as likely did the same, and there were serious accusations that Mayweather was indeed juicing.

That's not the point. The thing that's not known by many, at the time Manny Pacquiao turned pro at 106, or maybe just a few years earlier (and Mayweather is a little older than Pacquiao) an 18 or so year old Mayweather was fighting in the amateurs at 105 pounds.

That's true, some of the smaller fighters were the most successful.  Not sure about the roids, Mayweather may have been on them.  It wouldn't surprise me when so many athletes were on them.

There was a lengthy article written by some online boxing publication which accused Mayweather of roiding, and had a lot of research behind it.

It might have been this article: https://www.sbnation.com/longform/2015/9/9/9271811/can-boxing-trust-usada

Nonetheless I consider it hearsay. Simply the epidemic level of drug cheating among top-level athletes opens it to speculation, but I don't really care that much, and consider it a case of innocent until proven guilty.

So, I wouldn't call Floyd a drug cheat. Floyd is a hypocrite though, because he moved up in weight just like Manny Pacqiauo. Like I said, they were fighting at the same weight at the same age, about. Maybe Mayweather was 16 when he was fighting at strawweight in the amateurs, I don't remember the exact age. Pacman went pro at 17, at 106, and Mayweather was around the same weight at around the same age.

So if Pacqiuao needed the juice to move through the weights, might as well say Mayweather did as well.

Yeah, innocent until proven guilty but I wouldn't be surprised if Mayweather took something. Not saying he did, it just wouldn't surprise me one bit based on all the top athletes that use it.

nodogoshi wrote:

CDF47 wrote:

nodogoshi wrote:

CDF47 wrote:

fka wrote:If a mw hendo beat fedor then a mw overeem beat lesnar

I forget what Hendo and Overeem weighed in at for those fights.

Overeem was a proper heavyweight, well before that fight.

He was a 205 pound fighter once, but he'd blown up on the steroids horse meat years before he fought Lesnar. I think he was weighing in the 240s range.

Henderson, I believe, weighed in at 206 for the Fedor fight. I remember he was asked in an interview about what he'd weigh for the fight, and he said to the effect "maybe I'll have to drink a bottle of water before I step on the scale to be at 206".

That wasn't "Hollywood" Dan "Hendo" Henderson's first heavyweight fight, as he fought openweight early in his career.

I think I'm forgetting one of Dan Henderson's nicknames. Anyone wanna help me out with that?

Yeah, you could be right about Overeem's weight.  Maybe upper 240s, lower 250s at most.  I was at the Fedor fight with Hendo and the weigh-in but I forgot Hendo's weight.  Crazy you can remember that.  

Yeah, Dan would fight anyone.  He is a legend in this sport for sure.

On second thought, I think Overeem may have weighed in the 250s. That seems right.

Yeah, that's what I kind of remember as well.

UFC will be holding UFC 233 the same day and also in California, specifically the Honda Center in Anaheim. Interesting.

I know which one i will be watching come on god i need dazan in my country by the 27,01,19..

I'll watch both, but without question I'll be watching the Bellator card first.

Rocksoldier84 wrote:UFC will be holding UFC 233 the same day and also in California, specifically the Honda Center in Anaheim. Interesting.

Damn, they are date crashing this big Bellator event. I will be watching Bellator and Fedor this night.

nodogoshi wrote:I'll watch both, but without question I'll be watching the Bellator card first.

Same here. I will be watching Bellator live and I will catch UFC later.

westcott123 wrote:I know which one i will be watching come on god i need dazan in my country by the 27,01,19..

Hopefully DAZN goes to your hometown soon.

I'm changing my prediction.

I have Fedor by KO.

I think about this fight, at night in bed, when I'm trying to go to sleep.

I don't know of anything better to think about when I'm trying to sleep, but upcoming fights, like this one.

I think Fedor is going to come out aggressive, just like he always does (and always has. I've watched all of his fights. He always came out looking to finish from the opening bell. Remember the Sylvia fight? That's a decent example).

Bader is going to be ready for that, but he won't know how it feels until he is in the ring. He might try to catch Fedor like he did King Mo, and could do, but Fedor isn't King Mo.

I think Fedor will come out swinging. He could well catch Bader in the early going. Bader could catch Fedor, but I think Fedor is more likely to catch Bader.

As the fight drags on, Bader will look for takedowns. Fedor will have counters. If Fedor goes to his back, he could pull out a vintage armbar, or another submission.

I'd love it if Fedor submitted Bader.

But, I think Fedor has a good chance of KOing Bader.

After thinking about this fight a lot, I actually do have Fedor by KO.

He's probably still the underdog with the bookies, although I haven't checked.

It is still a close fight.

nodogoshi wrote:I'm changing my prediction.

I have Fedor by KO.

I think about this fight, at night in bed, when I'm trying to go to sleep.

I don't know of anything better to think about when I'm trying to sleep, but upcoming fights, like this one.

I think Fedor is going to come out aggressive, just like he always does (and always has. I've watched all of his fights. He always came out looking to finish from the opening bell. Remember the Sylvia fight? That's a decent example).

Bader is going to be ready for that, but he won't know how it feels until he is in the ring. He might try to catch Fedor like he did King Mo, and could do, but Fedor isn't King Mo.

I think Fedor will come out swinging. He could well catch Bader in the early going. Bader could catch Fedor, but I think Fedor is more likely to catch Bader.

As the fight drags on, Bader will look for takedowns. Fedor will have counters. If Fedor goes to his back, he could pull out a vintage armbar, or another submission.

I'd love it if Fedor submitted Bader.

But, I think Fedor has a good chance of KOing Bader.

After thinking about this fight a lot, I actually do have Fedor by KO.

He's probably still the underdog with the bookies, although I haven't checked.

It is still a close fight.

Nice breakdown. I got Fedor as well. Yeah, Vegas has Bader as a favorite (I think -350 or something like that). I don't care what the odds makers are saying for this one though. I think Fedor pulls off the upset.

I agree i have fedor as well.

westcott123 wrote:I agree i have fedor as well.

Good to see the Fedor picks for this one.

The co-main event of Bellator's return to the "Fabulous" Forum in Inglewood, Calif. on Jan. 26 will see reigning middleweight champion Gegard Mousasi (45-6-2) defend his title against undefeated Brazilian jiu-jitsu black belt Rafael Lovato Jr. (9-0).

Fighting out of Leiden, South Holland, Netherlands, Gegard Mousasi will be looking to follow-up his decisive TKO victory over Rory MacDonald at Bellator 206 in what will be his second title defense since becoming champion earlier this year. "The Dreamcatcher" is currently in the midst of an impressive eight-fight win streak that dates back to 2016. The 33-year-old judo black belt has dominated the stacked middleweight class since signing with Bellator in 2017, collecting three victories in as many bouts, including a pair of knockouts against Rafael Carvalho and MacDonald in both of his world title fights. The former Strikeforce champion, who debuted in impressive fashion against Alexander Shlemenko,now looks to extend his current win streak and defend the middleweight belt for the second time in just five months.

Rafael Lovato Jr. will be making his sixth appearance for Bellator, a bout where not only will the 35-year-old's unblemished mark of 9-0 be on the line, but also a world championship belt. Since signing with the Viacom-owned promotion in 2017, the Oklahoma City-based fighter has tallied five wins and four finishes, three of which came in the opening round, including his most recent submission win over top middleweight contender John Salter at Bellator 205. A fourth-degree black belt in Brazilian jiu-jitsu, the former Legacy FC middleweight champ will finally have his shot at Bellator gold when he takes on current 185-pound champion Mousasi in the co-main event of Bellator's return to Los Angeles on Jan. 26.

Kingfedor wrote:
The co-main event of Bellator's return to the "Fabulous" Forum in Inglewood, Calif. on Jan. 26 will see reigning middleweight champion Gegard Mousasi (45-6-2) defend his title against undefeated Brazilian jiu-jitsu black belt Rafael Lovato Jr. (9-0).

Fighting out of Leiden, South Holland, Netherlands, Gegard Mousasi will be looking to follow-up his decisive TKO victory over Rory MacDonald at Bellator 206 in what will be his second title defense since becoming champion earlier this year. "The Dreamcatcher" is currently in the midst of an impressive eight-fight win streak that dates back to 2016. The 33-year-old judo black belt has dominated the stacked middleweight class since signing with Bellator in 2017, collecting three victories in as many bouts, including a pair of knockouts against Rafael Carvalho and MacDonald in both of his world title fights. The former Strikeforce champion, who debuted in impressive fashion against Alexander Shlemenko,now looks to extend his current win streak and defend the middleweight belt for the second time in just five months.

Rafael Lovato Jr. will be making his sixth appearance for Bellator, a bout where not only will the 35-year-old's unblemished mark of 9-0 be on the line, but also a world championship belt. Since signing with the Viacom-owned promotion in 2017, the Oklahoma City-based fighter has tallied five wins and four finishes, three of which came in the opening round, including his most recent submission win over top middleweight contender John Salter at Bellator 205. A fourth-degree black belt in Brazilian jiu-jitsu, the former Legacy FC middleweight champ will finally have his shot at Bellator gold when he takes on current 185-pound champion Mousasi in the co-main event of Bellator's return to Los Angeles on Jan. 26.

Stacked card with these two fights.

http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/current-fedor-vs-curtis-blaydes.3864943/


I thought i post this it is ironic how since apparently fedor isn't the goat yet it's always fedor vs insert ufc heavyweight.

As for the evolution thing i agree today's heavyweights are more evolved i mean derrick Lewis and Francis ngannou they have no ground game i guess they're more evolved than big nog and cro cop.