UFC 155 - Dos Santos vs. Velasquez 2 Discussion

wekka wrote:

Somnio wrote:

wekka wrote:

Somnio wrote:

retrocausality wrote:why is everyone picking against Okami? I see a easy decision for Yushin.

How is this an easy win for Yushin? Belcher is no joke. Yushin is not a better striker and his BJJ is not as slick or up to par with Belcher's. Yushin is the better wrestler but that is it. I see good fight taking place, but IMO Belcher wins.

Yushin's done it before, no reason to think he can't this time around too.

Yes, he beat Belcher 7 years ago. IMO Belcher has improved much more since their first meeting.

Yeah, Belcher is practically a completely different fighting as opposed to then, but Okami is stronger than he was then as well. Outside of the a completely lackluster fight with Silva and an unbelievable comeback loss to Boetsch that he was winning pretty handily, I think he's improved his top game even more and actually developed real knockout power.

Not to say I won't give Belcher more of a chance this time around, it's just that I still believe Okami is a high level middleweight and has the style that could potentially give Belcher fits. Won't finish him, but a clear-cut decision is very plausible, as retro said.

And as I said before, Belcher trumps Okami in stand up and BJJ. All Okami has is wrestling. And this much improved top game you are speaking of, I have not seen. Also, where was Okami's strength against Silva? People said he was stronger than Anderson (including himself) but it sure didn't look like it. He literally did nothing to Silva who many claim has weak TDD. I don't believe that but many people do. Belcher is also one of the bigger MWs. If Okami can't get the fight to the ground it is over for him. Not to mention it is not smart to play around on the mat with Belcher either. Did you not see the Palhares fight?

Belcher's grappling is nowhere near as good as Okami's. Okami's top game is top 3 best in UFC.

I could see Okami just freezing and getting TKO'd on the feet or something, but Belcher would not outgrapple Okami. He doesn't have the skills.

Okami UD3.

My picks:

Velasquez UD5
Okami UD3
Wineland UD3
Perez SUB1
Johnson UD3
Miller UD3
Philippou UD3
Duffee KO1
Moraga TKO2
Varner UD3
Brunson UD3
Holloway TKO2

Sweet Pea Is My Mom wrote:Belcher's grappling is nowhere near as good as Okami's. Okami's top game is top 3 best in UFC.

I could see Okami just freezing and getting TKO'd on the feet or something, but Belcher would not outgrapple Okami. He doesn't have the skills.

Okami UD3.

Top three in the UFC? That's laughable.

Better than Cain, Bones, GSP, Evans, Sonnen, Bendo? No.

Personally I think JDS wins in the same fashion as before. Stranger things have happened though. I would recommend Jack Slacks article on bloody elbow on this fight. He is one of the only MMA journalists that are worth a shit!

Sweet Pea Is My Mom wrote:Belcher's grappling is nowhere near as good as Okami's. Okami's top game is top 3 best in UFC.

I could see Okami just freezing and getting TKO'd on the feet or something, but Belcher would not outgrapple Okami. He doesn't have the skills.

Okami UD3.

Top 3? Come on man.

Davidson 45 wrote:

Sweet Pea Is My Mom wrote:Belcher's grappling is nowhere near as good as Okami's. Okami's top game is top 3 best in UFC.

I could see Okami just freezing and getting TKO'd on the feet or something, but Belcher would not outgrapple Okami. He doesn't have the skills.

Okami UD3.

Top 3? Come on man.

Okami is one of the best passers of the guard in all of MMA, and his ground-and-pound is very, very effective.

I'd like to know your top 3, though.

Somnio wrote:

Sweet Pea Is My Mom wrote:Belcher's grappling is nowhere near as good as Okami's. Okami's top game is top 3 best in UFC.

I could see Okami just freezing and getting TKO'd on the feet or something, but Belcher would not outgrapple Okami. He doesn't have the skills.

Okami UD3.

Top three in the UFC? That's laughable.

Better than Cain, Bones, GSP, Evans, Sonnen, Bendo? No.

Evans? Did you see his stats against Thiago Silva? He is effective at controlling opponents and passing guard, though.

Cain, GSP, Bones all good options. Okami is a better passer of the guard than all of them. His ground-and-pound is not based on accumulation but more of on picking the right shots, whereas Cain destroys opponents with accumulation.

Bendo? Eh...I don't think he could control an opponent for the life of him (that's not his game), but he does good damage from the top (Guida, Diaz, Bocek, Miller fights especially). I'm a fan.

Bones easily has the most frightening top game in the UFC. He could destroy many opponents inside a round if he wanted, but he holds back a lot. Now that he has something to lose, he is content with wearing on opponents until they cannot physical beat him and then chooses to finish. For example, Vitor was physically and mentally broken in round 2; he put everything he had into the armbar and then was finished. However, Jones didn't go for the finish until the fourth round, when Vitor was just utterly, utterly done. Same thing happened with Rampage. When he wanted to turn heads before he was champion, he went for these violent finishes -- he wanted an opportunity. Yet, now that he has something to lose -- money, endorsement deals, the title -- he plays it much safer and waits until all the danger is nullified before he finishes. It's pretty clear to see. He still has this ability to ruin people quickly in his arsenal, but he doesn't use it. He could EASILY finish Dan Henderson in a round. But I'm willing to bet he'll leave it to round 4 until it actually happens, when the old man is on his last legs and isn't dangerous any more.

Okami is a serious grappler. I think he's a better boxer then Belcher as well. Belcher does have a better chin, other than that he's severely overrated.

Sweet Pea Is My Mom wrote:

Somnio wrote:

Sweet Pea Is My Mom wrote:Belcher's grappling is nowhere near as good as Okami's. Okami's top game is top 3 best in UFC.

I could see Okami just freezing and getting TKO'd on the feet or something, but Belcher would not outgrapple Okami. He doesn't have the skills.

Okami UD3.

Top three in the UFC? That's laughable.

Better than Cain, Bones, GSP, Evans, Sonnen, Bendo? No.

Evans? Did you see his stats against Thiago Silva? He is effective at controlling opponents and passing guard, though.

Cain, GSP, Bones all good options. Okami is a better passer of the guard than all of them. His ground-and-pound is not based on accumulation but more of on picking the right shots, whereas Cain destroys opponents with accumulation.

Bendo? Eh...I don't think he could control an opponent for the life of him (that's not his game), but he does good damage from the top (Guida, Diaz, Bocek, Miller fights especially). I'm a fan.

Bones easily has the most frightening top game in the UFC. He could destroy many opponents inside a round if he wanted, but he holds back a lot. Now that he has something to lose, he is content with wearing on opponents until they cannot physical beat him and then chooses to finish. For example, Vitor was physically and mentally broken in round 2; he put everything he had into the armbar and then was finished. However, Jones didn't go for the finish until the fourth round, when Vitor was just utterly, utterly done. Same thing happened with Rampage. When he wanted to turn heads before he was champion, he went for these violent finishes -- he wanted an opportunity. Yet, now that he has something to lose -- money, endorsement deals, the title -- he plays it much safer and waits until all the danger is nullified before he finishes. It's pretty clear to see. He still has this ability to ruin people quickly in his arsenal, but he doesn't use it. He could EASILY finish Dan Henderson in a round. But I'm willing to bet he'll leave it to round 4 until it actually happens, when the old man is on his last legs and isn't dangerous any more.

All very good points. I still believe the guys I mentioned have a better top game than Okami. I would also say so does Phil Davis. So no way is Okami top 3.

I definitely agree with you though, Bones' top game is unmatched. Everything you said about him was on point.

Phil Davis catches guys in transition. People like Prado with zero wrestling background Davis struggled and couldn't hold down. Phil Davis isn't even a top 10 top game player.

Phil Davis literally had his way with Prado. Like pure domination. What are you talking about?

No he didn't in terms on dominating the top game, Prado got up multiple times. In fact thats how he was finished.

You do know we are talking about passing and mounting right? Add up all the times Okami has passed and mounted and time spent in a dominant postilion compared to Davis. It's not even close.

And Okami has faced way better grapplers at 185 then Davis. The one decent wrestler Davis fought, Evans, He struggled.

I hope Vemola finishes Leben.

I have 2 parlays going.

JDS via KO/TKO
Duffee
Holloway
Guillard

JDS via KO/TKO
Duffee

Guillard Varner seems to be a pick em fight but I really see Guillard winning via KO/TKO. He looked mad at the weigh-ins but Guillard will overpower Varner in the striking. I'm guessing round 1.

JDS wins via KO again Cain is too open to punches all of the time.

only interested in the main event. And wolfie I belive when jds fights we usually have a sig bet going... so if your wolf enough let me know.
cain wins via gnp.

my money is on the Fexican Fighter..............

I really really don't see how cain wins this. Cain isn't getting him down. If he gets him down, JDS pops right back up. JDS won't get caught either, he has a solid chin.

lmao I just noticed they put a mexican flag behind Cain, lmao he is american.

PRIDE NEVER DIE wrote:lmao I just noticed they put a mexican flag behind Cain, lmao he is american.

yeah that shit's hilarious

PRIDE NEVER DIE wrote:only interested in the main event. And wolfie I belive when jds fights we usually have a sig bet going... so if your wolf enough let me know.
cain wins via gnp.

I'm in. JDS via TKO.

In the other fights i'm interested i pick Okami, Boetsch, Duffe.

Wolfman wrote:

PRIDE NEVER DIE wrote:only interested in the main event. And wolfie I belive when jds fights we usually have a sig bet going... so if your wolf enough let me know.
cain wins via gnp.

I'm in. JDS via TKO.

In the other fights i'm interested i pick Okami, Boetsch, Duffe.

Bring it on wolf by tonights end you will be sporting that dana sig hahahaha

Varner/Guillard was great and Wineland/Pickett was pretty damn good as well. Could be a good ppv tonight.