Re: Biased treatment of Zuffa v Non Zuffa fighters

Sun Feb 19, 2012 9:52 am

Clearly I don't get it - since the theme of the thread seemed to be suggesting Nelson is terrible and Monson is great.

It's hypocrisy and double standards. Arlovski was a legit fight for Fedor coming off the back of win over Nelson, but now Nelson is in Zuffa he is shat on from a great height.
This sort of nonsense makes you every bit as bad as the narrow minded mouth breathing Zuffa or nothing fans.

Support the sport? What a joke.

Sun Feb 19, 2012 9:53 am

Also, someone said Monson gave Cormier a tough fight. Did they have a 2nd fight I missed or something?

Sun Feb 19, 2012 9:54 am

total finish wrote:Clearly I don't get it - since the theme of the thread seemed to be suggesting Nelson is terrible and Monson is great.

It's hypocrisy and double standards. Arlovski was a legit fight for Fedor coming off the back of win over Nelson, but now Nelson is in Zuffa he is shat on from a great height.
This sort of nonsense makes you every bit as bad as the narrow minded mouth breathing Zuffa or nothing fans.

Support the sport? What a joke.

Nelson is good but Monson is better Ronwah.

Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:00 am

Here´s the OP of this thread in case you didn´t read it..

This is very interesting. How a Zuffa fighter gets his achievements applauded while a non Zuffa fighter gets called a CAN.

Lets look at the case of Roy Nelson and Jeff Monson. Both have granite for chins and both having only fallen by punches from one man, AA for Nelson and Rizzo for Monson. Yet everyone is praising and hyping Roy as having the toughest chin after being thrashed by Werdum, yet wont acknowledge Monson's equally strong resolve.

In addition, zombies have called Monson a CAN and tried to diminish Fedor's achievements against him, all the while ignoring the fact that Monson has a better fight record, is better on the ground, has a tougher chin, and actually beat Nelson. Yet I never heard any of these zombies question why Werdum fought a CAN (BTW I dont regard Monson and Nelson as cans).

I still have Monson as a better fighter, better chin, and better grappling as compared with Roy Nelson. Their ranking though is nowhere near each other. Nelson would have a better ranking courtesy of being a Zuffa employee.

Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:00 am

I can see there is no point in talking MMA with you - I'll wait for someone else to answer the points I put across.
Is this Ronwah thing a standard response to people who disagree with you? Not that there is much disagreement taking place on here, just a lot of people blindly agreeing with each other - eerily familiar in a way...

Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:02 am

total finish wrote:I can see there is no point in talking MMA with you - I'll wait for someone else to answer the points I put across.
Is this Ronwah thing a standard response to people who disagree with you? Not that there is much disagreement taking place on here, just a lot of people blindly agreeing with each other - eerily familiar in a way...

You don´t even get the point with the thread. It´s not about Nelson being a can, read it again.

Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:10 am

My point is Nelson was given his dues and ranking inside the top 10 before he was contracted to Zuffa. So it's nothing to do with Zuffa hype in this instance.

Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:46 am

After just watching Nelson vs Monson, in my completely unbiased assessment Nelson was not robbed.

I have it even. Monson did not win either.

It's a hard fight to judge as it really wasn't a fight at all. At all.

Nothing either fighter did made me think that I was watching any sort of a fight.

Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:57 am

It was an awful fight - you won't see any arguments from me there. But with scoring criteria in MMA - I think Nelson should have got the nod.
You can also make an argument that Nelson was on his way to beating Arlovski before the bullshit stand-up from the referee.

Sun Feb 19, 2012 12:41 pm

Johan Lofgren wrote:

total finish wrote:

Johan Lofgren wrote:

total finish wrote:What's a Ronwah? Also how is giving Nelson his dues for his performance in the fight against Monson not supporting the sport?
Or do we choose to ignore stuff like that because it doesn't fit the ideology?

Brainwashed fans think only the UFC counts, it´s as simple as that. You´re welcome to have your opinions but we will still fight against Zuffa. They need to be stopped before they get a hold on the european market.

Which is fine. But I'm still not sure on how that has anything to do with the fight between Nelson and Monson?
Why is Nelson being discredited when the fight immediately before Monson he lost to Arlovski - who in turn then fought Fedor. Arlovski was considered the number two HW in the world at the time and Nelson was seen as a legit contender for him at the time.

Dress it up any way you like, but Nelson was robbed in the fight against Monson.

Monson put on a bad performance against Nelson but overall he´s the better fighter. Beating Monson is better than beating Nelson. You get it?

I dont have a prob against Nelson in fact I like him he has done amazing things for a guy of his shape, but outside of this forum it seems like people think nelson is light years ahead of monson when in reality he's not.

Sun Feb 19, 2012 12:47 pm

And to tell you something else, how come Nelson can get credit for facing a number "2" arlovski yet when Fedor fight AA, AA is considered a washed up can, has been def not top 10?

Sun Feb 19, 2012 12:55 pm

PRIDE NEVER DIE wrote:And to tell you something else, how come Nelson can get credit for facing a number "2" arlovski yet when Fedor fight AA, AA is considered a washed up can, has been def not top 10?

But he was considered number two at the time of that fight, that washed up nonsense didn't start until after the Rogers fight.

Sun Feb 19, 2012 12:58 pm

moronoRepublic wrote:

PRIDE NEVER DIE wrote:And to tell you something else, how come Nelson can get credit for facing a number "2" arlovski yet when Fedor fight AA, AA is considered a washed up can, has been def not top 10?

But he was considered number two at the time of that fight, that washed up nonsense didn't start until after the Rogers fight.

I agree, also rogers was ranked # 10 at the time fedor fought him by many "sites" yet fedor gets no credit for that.

Sun Feb 19, 2012 1:19 pm

Fans say Fedor is only fighting cans but if Fedor vs Monson was in the UFC it would be a great matchup.

Biased treatment of Zuffa v Non Zuffa fighters - Page 2 191574955

Biased treatment of Zuffa v Non Zuffa fighters - Page 2 191574955

Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:47 pm

Johan Lofgren wrote:Fans say Fedor is only fighting cans but if Fedor vs Monson was in the UFC it would be a great matchup.

EXAMPLE 1
Brock aka white Bob Sapp = top 3
Bob Sapp aka black Brock Lesnar = nowhere to be seen

EXAMPLE 2
Nelson aka iron chin and submission artist = top 10
Monson aka iron chin and submission artist and Nelson beater = nowhere to be seen

EXAMPLE 3
Cain V aka 9-1 KO artist = top 3
Guram G aka 11-0 SUB artist = lucky to be top 20

EXAMPLE 4
Fedor aka the GOAT = outside the top 10
Shane Carwin aka President Skroob oxygen in a can = in the top 10

Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:49 pm

monaroCountry wrote:

Johan Lofgren wrote:Fans say Fedor is only fighting cans but if Fedor vs Monson was in the UFC it would be a great matchup.

EXAMPLE 1
Brock aka white Bob Sapp = top 3
Bob Sapp aka black Brock Lesnar = nowhere to be seen

EXAMPLE 2
Nelson aka iron chin and submission artist = top 10
Monson aka iron chin and submission artist and Nelson beater = nowhere to be seen

EXAMPLE 3
Cain V aka 9-1 KO artist = top 3
Guram G aka 11-0 SUB artist = lucky to be top 20

sad this is what has become of my love. Biased treatment of Zuffa v Non Zuffa fighters - Page 2 2258216839

Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:53 pm

PRIDE NEVER DIE wrote:

monaroCountry wrote:

Johan Lofgren wrote:Fans say Fedor is only fighting cans but if Fedor vs Monson was in the UFC it would be a great matchup.

EXAMPLE 1
Brock aka white Bob Sapp = top 3
Bob Sapp aka black Brock Lesnar = nowhere to be seen

EXAMPLE 2
Nelson aka iron chin and submission artist = top 10
Monson aka iron chin and submission artist and Nelson beater = nowhere to be seen

EXAMPLE 3
Cain V aka 9-1 KO artist = top 3
Guram G aka 11-0 SUB artist = lucky to be top 20

sad this is what has become of my love.

Sad isnt it?

Pride determined who the best fighters were by inviting top fighters from other promotions to fight their top fighters. Zuffa determines who the top fighters are by hyping their own and belittling the accomplishments of non Zuffa fighters.

Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:58 pm

Why do wrestling credentials go so far in MMA, in terms of legitimacy, but not Sambo credentials? It's a shame. Other martial arts are discriminated against in the UFC.

Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:59 pm

Yeah, because Tamura and Yamamoto > Couture and Mir.
Although talented, Tamura was severely outweighed and Yamamoto had long seen better days.

Cain is ranked because, unlike Guram, he has beat numerous top 20 opponents. Its not that big of a shock.

Some true questionable rankings come in the Middleweight, Lightweight, and Flyweight division.

Why isn't Lombard considered top ten by most media outlets?
Why did Melendez never gain number one at LW? He has a stronger resume and has already avenged his defeats.
Why did McCall overtake Urushitani when Yasuhiro has shown far more dominance at 125?

Why are these acts of questionable judgement never brought up?

Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:14 pm

Unlike you I dont rely on the Zuffa rankings, I look at the actual fights. Its folly to rely on Zuffa rankings when they have Lesnar > Fedor, especially when looking at the skill differences.

Randy is also looses quite a few times and is simply up the rankings because hes a Zuffa favourite, Mir is also a hot and cold fighter.

Looking at the fighters I would rate Cain and Guram closer to each other and not have one in the top 5 and the other in the top 30.

Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:43 pm

Sweet Pea Is My Mom wrote:Why do wrestling credentials go so far in MMA, in terms of legitimacy, but not Sambo credentials? It's a shame. Other martial arts are discriminated against in the UFC.

Hey Sweet pea! Welcome to GMMA.

I think it's mostly started with the Machida-era's Joe Rogan relentlessly saying wrestling is the best base for MMA. Like where??? a ring? a cage? unified rules? international or rules??? Rolling Eyes

Then over time the UFC focused on recruiting a lot of American wrestlers. Other-martial art discrimination in the UFC is a kind of a self fulfilling prophecy based first on propaganda. See Joseph Goebbels: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Goebbels

Ironically, most UFC fans think that the USA has the best wrestlers in the world. This is due to how they hear relentlessly about American UFC wrestling prowess and their world-class pedigrees Rolling Eyes

from Joe Rogan. They are to ignorant to know any better or do their own research. Sheep!

Mon Feb 20, 2012 12:13 am

Hey Sweet pea! Welcome to GMMA.

I think it's mostly started with the Machida-era's Joe Rogan relentlessly saying wrestling is the best base for MMA. Like where??? a ring? a cage? unified rules? international or rules??? Rolling Eyes

Then over time the UFC focused on recruiting a lot of American wrestlers. Other-martial art discrimination in the UFC is a kind of a self fulfilling prophecy based first on propaganda. See Joseph Goebbels: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Goebbels

Ironically, most UFC fans think that the USA has the best wrestlers in the world. This is due to how they hear relentlessly about American UFC wrestling prowess and their world-class pedigrees Rolling Eyes

from Joe Rogan. They are to ignorant to know any better or do their own research. Sheep!

---Joe Rogan knows the sport, he does many Martial arts himself (Black belt Taekwondo,and brown belt bjj ) and his job as a commentator is to call what he sees....IMO Wrestling is a huge key, because if your a striker and get takin down are you gonna ko someone from your back?

[/quote]

Mon Feb 20, 2012 12:36 am

---Joe Rogan knows the sport, he does many Martial arts himself (Black belt Taekwondo,and brown belt bjj ) and his job as a commentator is to call what he sees....IMO Wrestling is a huge key, because if your a striker and get takin down are you gonna ko someone from your back?

In a world where strikes counts as much as takedowns then no. Wrestling is a good base but not the best, there isnt really the best base, just good fighters who use what they know effectively and great fighters who expand on what they already know to learn other disciplines.

For example Igor with his kickboxxing background was the best MMA fighter, Igor's strong striking was later complimented by his acceptance of a ground game. Equally, Fedor's Judo/Sambo background was complimented by his kickboxing and striking game.

Joe Rogan isnt really a good critique when all is said and done. His combat experience isnt deep, his MMA experience outside the UFC is also not very deep, and his very biased outlook totally hinders him when it comes to the GLOBAL SPORT OF MMA. I respect Bas Rutten far more than Joe in the world of MMA journalists.

Mon Feb 20, 2012 12:40 am

Why is that there are no Eastern European wrestlers in MMA? They are far better than Americans. I would love to see some people from former USSR-satellites get some exposure - maybe a debut in KSW? Who knows, maybe a decent wrestler can come over to the States and show up the GSPs of the world?

Who was the Russian who outwrestled Olympic wrestler Shalorus in Zuffa?

Mon Feb 20, 2012 1:12 am

monaroCountry wrote:

Johan Lofgren wrote:Fans say Fedor is only fighting cans but if Fedor vs Monson was in the UFC it would be a great matchup.

EXAMPLE 1
Brock aka white Bob Sapp = top 3
Bob Sapp aka black Brock Lesnar = nowhere to be seen

EXAMPLE 2
Nelson aka iron chin and submission artist = top 10
Monson aka iron chin and submission artist and Nelson beater = nowhere to be seen

EXAMPLE 3
Cain V aka 9-1 KO artist = top 3
Guram G aka 11-0 SUB artist = lucky to be top 20

EXAMPLE 4
Fedor aka the GOAT = outside the top 10
Shane Carwin aka President Skroob oxygen in a can = in the top 10

Yup. Serra beats GSP and he jumps the rankings to number 1 (as he should for beating the champ). GSP falls to number 2. Edgar beats Penn and jumps the rankings to number 1 as he should and Penn falls to number 2. Yet, Werdum beats the GOAT and gets ranked as number 2 or 3 in the world and 3-1 Brock jumps to number 1 in the world while Fedor drops in the top 5. It should have been number 1 Werdum, number 2 Fedor, and maybe number 3 Brock. Top 5 Alvarez loses to Chandler and drops out of the top 10 entirely while Chandler does not even get listed in the top 10. WTF???? Aoki has more top ten wins than anyone in the LW division and he is at the bottom of the top 5. His only recent loss is to number 1 or 2 Melendez. Aoki should be top 3. There are countless examples of the biasness in the rankings.